ULEZ and how it effects the Gen1:

[mtread]

Call me an old sceptic, but some of this doesn't ring true. TFL told them what equipment to buy to test for NOx? Very unlikely TFL would do that, or even know what. Also their price keeps changing. And why aren't other garages doing it?



Could just be just an opportunist relying on fear and gullibility

[dazza]

Just been thinking about this and googled NOx testing equipment.
Then it suddenly dawned on me, I've got an emissions tester tucked away in my shed.
The problem is getting TFL to accept your findings.


https://www.e-inst.com/training/measuring-nitrogen-oxides-nox/


Might get it fired up in the next few days and find an exhaust pipe to stick it up ! 

[midden]

Just been thinking about this and googled NOx testing equipment.
Then it suddenly dawned on me, I've got an emissions tester tucked away in my shed.
The problem is getting TFL to accept your findings.


https://www.e-inst.com/training/measuring-nitrogen-oxides-nox/


Might get it fired up in the next few days and find an exhaust pipe to stick it up ! 

I'm sure my pipe will be free at the weekend hun      whether or not TfL accept the findings   they could be used as an indicator of whether it is worth forking out the £175

[midden]

[font=]b1k3rdude  out of interest what two bikes have you got?[/font]

[b1k3rdude]

b1k3rdude  out of interest what two bikes have you got?

2006 Bandit 1200 and 2010 bandit 1250, I bought the 1250 before I knew I could get a CoC for the 1200.

[dazza]

Punched my reg number into the ULEZ checker tonight and .......Bingo 


Actually working at Edgware Road tonight but the Bakerloo line which is the other side of the road, so not included in the ULEZ.
If I were to take a left turn and go to the circle line station it would cost me £12.50.... Actually, £25 if I were to get there before midnight  .
Still haven't upgraded my car yet as I can feel a new challenge coming on.........

[midden]

b1k3rdude  out of interest what two bikes have you got?

2006 Bandit 1200 and 2010 bandit 1250, I bought the 1250 before I knew I could get a CoC for the 1200.

Bummer 

[mtread]

Thought MAG were going to put together a list of which bike models /years pass the NOx test. Nothing on their site 

[dazza]

 

[mtread]

''Following a productive meeting with the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, regarding motorcycles in the Capital, MAG is engaged in seeking information from manufacturers which will help you secure an exemption for your motorcycle.''
That was on the 4th January..... followed by..... nothing.

[Tony5587]

Thanks for this thread. I live in London within the N/S Circular so would be effected by the ULEZ even if i didnt ride in central London, as it is planned to expand to include my house.Emailed Yamaha yesterday and they confirmed by email today that my 2001 FZS1000 has NOx of 0.09(g/km).
Happy to pay the £60 for the certificate proving this.
As with Dazza's communication with TFL, even if it is a long drawn out experience of emailing them and chasing them up....eventually i know my bike will be exempt and so will mean i dont have to sell my beloved Fazer! Or have to move house lol.

[mtread]

It does puzzle me a bit that the FZS600 with a smaller engine and better fuel consumption with 0.185 is more than double the FZS1000 with 0.09, but hey ho 

[dazza]

Saw this on the MAG FB page, thought it was an interesting read and backs up what I've mentioned to TFL before about the way a motorcycle moves through LOndon compared to a car so therefore can't be put into the same category. 







More incompetence and laziness from TfL and Sadiq Khan


 News from the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG)


MAG brands industry standard emissions calculator unfit for purpose.


This version: 2019-04-10       


Following repeated claims from Transport for London (TfL) that
“individually, motorcycles can be highly polluting”, MAG has demanded
that TfL produce evidence to back this claim.  TfL stalled for many
months before finally claiming that they take information from the
National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory.


MAG investigated this “evidence” and discovered that the information
from NAEI is, in fact, a modelling calculation; and we can now reveal
that this model actually backs our position that pre-Euro 3 motorcycles
are not necessarily “highly polluting” and that, by the admission of the
software modellers, the figures over-estimate real-world emissions from
motorcycles.


TfL has chosen a NOx emissions limit of 0.15g/km for motorcycles, based
on the figure for this single pollutant in the Euro 3 motorcycle
standard.  TfL claim that the evidence for pre-Euro 3 motorcycles being
highly polluting is provided by the COPERT 5 data for average motorcycle
emissions at an average speed of 30km/h.


The data from COPERT 5 shows that average emissions from pre-Euro 1
<50cc mopeds; pre-Euro 1, Euro 1 and Euro 2 two-strokes; Euro 2
four-strokes 250 – 750cc; pre-Euro 1, Euro 1 and Euro 2 four strokes
 >750cc, all average less than 0.15g/km.  At the same time, the cleanest
ULEZ-exempt Euro 6c diesel cars emit 0.21g/km.  MAG has also had
confirmation from Emisia - the company behind the COPERT modelling
software - that their models do not allow for the emissions advantage
possessed by motorcycles in terms of filtering through congested traffic.


Studies carried out by the Federation of European Motorcyclists
Associations (FEMA) demonstrated that, across 17 major European cities,
motorcycles on average reduce journey times by 30% compared with cars.
The COPERT modelling can therefore be shown to over-estimate the already
low emissions figures for motorcycles by this same percentage.


MAG’s Director of Campaigns & Political Engagement, Colin Brown, stated
“This research has led us to a conclusion that has far-reaching
implications beyond Sadiq Khan’s London: indeed beyond the UK, to the
whole of Europe.  Any air quality modelling that relies on the COPERT
software is misrepresenting the part that motorcycles play in air
quality.  No modelling will ever reveal the benefit that modal shift to
motorcycles and scooters can play in improving the quality of the air
that we all breathe.  An opportunity for all is being hidden through the
use of faulty assumptions that motorcycles are the same as cars and
should be treated in exactly the same way.  This is flawed modelling
that leads to poor decision-making.


MAG is more than happy to answer any questions about motorcycle
emissions, and to work with any authority that genuinely wants to reduce
air pollution to correct the modelling and come to workable policies
that promote the use of motorcycles and scooters.  As we have maintained
all along: motorcycles are the solution not the problem.”


Contact MAG at 01926 844 064 or central-office@mag-uk.org

[mtread]

Good find Dazza. I'm wondering how long it will be before someone is fined, appeals with this sort of evidence and wins. Leading to lots of refunds. As you say lazy TFL law making.

[Ripsnortingvtwin]

hi guys

can get a photo on this post but just got my letter from tfl to say mine clear now also

[dazza]

hi guys

can get a photo on this post but just got my letter from tfl to say mine clear now also

 

[blackcabbie]

have you still got to send a coc....... mines a usa import and yamaha uk wont supply a coc  against my frame/engine number

[b1k3rdude]

Mines a usa import and yamaha uk wont supply a coc  against my frame/engine number

Same here, hence having to possibly sell it. You and I have the option of taking a £175 punt of that bike shop in hackey - but I have lots of other things I can use £175 on...

[midden]

Mines a usa import and yamaha uk wont supply a coc  against my frame/engine number

Same here, hence having to possibly sell it. You and I have the option of taking a £175 punt of that bike shop in hackey - but I have lots of other things I can use £175 on...

Have you tried yamusa or probably Yamaha.com?

[midden]

It does puzzle me a bit that the FZS600 with a smaller engine and better fuel consumption with 0.185 is more than double the FZS1000 with 0.09, but hey ho 

600 is missing AIS and exup valve  both probably contribute to the results

[mtread]

600 is missing AIS and exup valve

So are most of the 1000s on here 

[midden]

Thanks for this thread. I live in London within the N/S Circular so would be effected by the ULEZ even if i didnt ride in central London, as it is planned to expand to include my house.Emailed Yamaha yesterday and they confirmed by email today that my 2001 FZS1000 has NOx of 0.09(g/km).
Happy to pay the £60 for the certificate proving this.
As with Dazza's communication with TFL, even if it is a long drawn out experience of emailing them and chasing them up....eventually i know my bike will be exempt and so will mean i dont have to sell my beloved Fazer! Or have to move house lol.

Perhaps in two years time you'll qualify for the ridiculous grace period afford those living in the ulez zone.....
Presumably it's thought they won't have  heard about this years ago like the rest of us and need time to prepare

[blackcabbie]

Mines a usa import and yamaha uk wont supply a coc  against my frame/engine number

Same here, hence having to possibly sell it. You and I have the option of taking a £175 punt of that bike shop in hackey - but I have lots of other things I can use £175 on...

Have you tried yamusa or probably Yamaha.com?

yes i contacted yamaha usa a few months ago.... they were very helpful on the phone and said they could supply a coc...great i thought... however what arrived is a letter stating bike conforms to all federal and state laws..... no mention of a nox level........obviously useless to present to tfl


i was hoping mag would get whole model range exempted, because mine shows fzs1000 on logbook not fz1


if i got it tested at that garage in hackney, it may not pass cos i have removed ais......


any thoughts on this ????

[midden]

Mines a usa import and yamaha uk wont supply a coc  against my frame/engine number

Same here, hence having to possibly sell it. You and I have the option of taking a £175 punt of that bike shop in hackey - but I have lots of other things I can use £175 on...

Have you tried yamusa or probably Yamaha.com?

yes i contacted yamaha usa a few months ago.... they were very helpful on the phone and said they could supply a coc...great i thought... however what arrived is a letter stating bike conforms to all federal and state laws..... no mention of a nox level........obviously useless to present to tfl


i was hoping mag would get whole model range exempted, because mine shows fzs1000 on logbook not fz1


if i got it tested at that garage in hackney, it may not pass cos i have removed ais......


any thoughts on this ????

Yeah  refit it       


Have you been back in touch with yam usa  incase they didn't quite understand what you needed

[blackcabbie]

cant refit it cos i dont have the ais  anymore..... dont think contacting yam usa again would do any good...... does the uk coc give a nox value ??