Date: 25-03-19  Time: 03:23 AM

Author Topic: Oil pressure switch  (Read 1541 times)

limax2

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #25 on: 11 January 2019, 09:42:49 PM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

BBROWN1664

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #26 on: 11 January 2019, 10:04:32 PM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

fazersharp

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #27 on: 11 January 2019, 10:34:52 PM »
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]
EGG CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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fazersharp

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #28 on: 11 January 2019, 10:38:22 PM »
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them.   The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.     
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His Dudeness

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #29 on: 11 January 2019, 11:26:30 PM »
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them.   The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.   
Probably because cars rubbish and only good for carrying the shopping :lol I think on some new cars you can't even check the oil level. The engine is sealed and you have to take it to a dealer to do an oil change....junk!

darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #30 on: 12 January 2019, 04:36:30 AM »
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them.   The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.   


Because they're dipsticks  :lol
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darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #31 on: 12 January 2019, 09:14:47 AM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM


I was gonna say the same, the whole point of oil is to lubricate under extreme conditions so if it changed its quality or texture a lot under different temperatures then it would become kind of unreliable.
You'll always get a cold engine and a hot engine but it has to be designed to withstand all of this, hence the reason it's graded between temperature lowers/uppers.
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YamFazFan

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #32 on: 12 January 2019, 11:56:23 AM »
What about a dipstick?

Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
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fazersharp

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #33 on: 12 January 2019, 12:20:26 PM »
What about a dipstick?

Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end. 
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darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #34 on: 12 January 2019, 01:01:28 PM »
What about a dipstick?

Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.


I bet you sold it to him?  :lol
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YamFazFan

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #35 on: 12 January 2019, 01:31:49 PM »
What about a dipstick?

Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.


I bet you sold it to him?  :lol
:rollin :rollin
If I remember correctly you could only get about a pint of oil in the sump at oil change because it was stuffed full of dipstick ends ;)
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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #36 on: 12 January 2019, 05:18:07 PM »

Probably because cars rubbish and only good for carrying the shopping :lol I think on some new cars you can't even check the oil level. The engine is sealed and you have to take it to a dealer to do an oil change....junk!


On my Audi, there is no dipstick, you have to check the level via the computer screen inside the car.
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robbo

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #37 on: 12 January 2019, 08:18:00 PM »
My '94 Speed Triple has a dipstick. No doubt far more expensive to produce that feature, than drilling a hole through a crankcase and pressing a glass bung in the hole.

limax2

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #38 on: 12 January 2019, 08:35:16 PM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM


The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.  ;)

darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #39 on: 12 January 2019, 08:39:49 PM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM


The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.  ;)


Been a while for my bike now but from memory when my bike was cold the oil was above the window.
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fazersharp

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #40 on: 12 January 2019, 09:08:38 PM »
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%]  [/size]

Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM


The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.  ;)


Been a while for my bike now but from memory when my bike was cold the oil was above the window.
Yes it is or very near the top.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

YamFazFan

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #41 on: 12 January 2019, 09:37:10 PM »

I've only ever checked my Fazer oil level before start up ie engine stone cold ( I didn't know all this info about turning off and waiting a couple of mins).


It's always pretty much at the top of the sight glass.
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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #42 on: 12 January 2019, 10:40:31 PM »
When doing an oil change my engine is still hot after draining old oil out, new filter on, new fresh oil up to the upper mark on the engine, fire it up, filter fills, shut off after a minute, leave bike 5 mins and it usually takes about 75 cc to to get it back up to upper mark. As others have said I never have to put oil in the engine between changes (often only 1500 miles) but oil that comes out of the Fazer goes in my mowers and Honda C90 also is it for topping up my diesel Combo van.

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #43 on: 12 January 2019, 11:49:03 PM »
The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.  ;)
The calculation sounds ok, but it’s only half the story as the aluminium alloy cases expand with heat too... so the sump gets bigger. :lol

darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #44 on: 12 January 2019, 11:57:52 PM »
My blind 2.8 litres, then forgetting about it for 4000 miles as long as there isn't any leaks is starting to sound like the way forward  :lol
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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #45 on: 16 January 2019, 01:33:10 PM »
So from what others are saying, the egg cup left in the galleries after several minutes after running the bike up to temp, is offset by the egg cup of expansion of the oil. When cold the egg cup that was in the galleries is now in the sump, and the egg cup due to heat expansion is no longer relevant. ergo, the level will be the same in both hot and cold scenarios.

With regards to my own personal experience, the light has come on, on only one of the ten journeys I have made since my original post, if the oil level was dangerously low as has been suggested, it was low for all ten journeys, but only lit the lamp once. In the interest of covering all the bases, I checked the oil as per the manual, and marked a line after seven minutes, and then checked it again after two hours, and there was no difference whatsoever in the level. I then warmed the bike up and topped up to the top line. On four journeys since, the light has come on twice.



Back to my original question, before I was accused of being an idiot, has anybody else had trouble with their oil light?

A new switch is £86, so I'll look for a S/H one, unless I can fix the old one.
« Last Edit: 16 January 2019, 01:34:57 PM by Pal »

fazersharp

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #46 on: 16 January 2019, 01:44:56 PM »
So from what others are saying, the egg cup left in the galleries after several minutes after running the bike up to temp, is offset by the egg cup of expansion of the oil. When cold the egg cup that was in the galleries is now in the sump, and the egg cup due to heat expansion is no longer relevant. ergo, the level will be the same in both hot and cold scenarios.

With regards to my own personal experience, the light has come on, on only one of the ten journeys I have made since my original post, if the oil level was dangerously low as has been suggested, it was low for all ten journeys, but only lit the lamp once. In the interest of covering all the bases, I checked the oil as per the manual, and marked a line after seven minutes, and then checked it again after two hours, and there was no difference whatsoever in the level. I then warmed the bike up and topped up to the top line. On four journeys since, the light has come on twice.



Back to my original question, before I was accused of being an idiot, has anybody else had trouble with their oil light?

A new switch is £86, so I'll look for a S/H one, unless I can fix the old one.

I don't think anyone has called you an Idiot. Do not but a new switch - you do not need one, I can confidently suggest that there is nothing wrong with your switch .
Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 
I had replaced the oil and filled it up as I have always done but this time it was a cheaper oil - same spec but I put the oil on light down to to oil being thinner and more readerly "sloshed" to the back and away from the switch on hard acceleration. 
« Last Edit: 16 January 2019, 01:49:57 PM by fazersharp »
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YamFazFan

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #47 on: 17 January 2019, 09:33:36 AM »

Why do people ask questions then 'take offence' at being told the answers?.


Are people supposed to have the talent of a mind reader to know what knowledge you already have or not. Talk about paranoid :rolleyes
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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #48 on: 17 January 2019, 01:29:52 PM »
Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 
As I said in my original post, this all happened at tickover at a junction. No 'spirted' riding, that came later. It was also more than a flick, it stayed on constantly for minutes until I stopped and turned everything off and back on.

Didn't come on today, I think it was scared of the snow.

darrsi

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Re: Oil pressure switch
« Reply #49 on: 17 January 2019, 01:52:03 PM »
Yes I too have had the same issue with a flick on of the light after accelerating (with fun) from exiting roundabout. I looked at the level and it looked all ok so I put in about an egg cup full more oil and since then have not seen the light switch on. 
As I said in my original post, this all happened at tickover at a junction. No 'spirted' riding, that came later. It was also more than a flick, it stayed on constantly for minutes until I stopped and turned everything off and back on.

Didn't come on today, I think it was scared of the snow.


Exactly what oil do you use, when was it last changed, and how often do you change it?
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