Date: 28-03-24  Time: 14:11 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209698 times)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2875 on: 03 April 2019, 05:15:58 pm »
The EU would refuse to open trade talks with Britain after a no-deal Brexit until the UK decided to sign up to the main elements of the withdrawal agreement anyway, the European Commission has said.
Speaking in the European parliament on Wednesday, Jean-Claude Juncker said the Irish border, citizens’ rights and the divorce bill would need to be agreed before any other negotiations could begin.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-theresa-may-corbyn-pmqs-no-deal-customs-union-a8852011.html

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2876 on: 03 April 2019, 08:54:21 pm »

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2877 on: 04 April 2019, 05:04:48 pm »
You gotta love this one............................... :lol



Slaninar

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2878 on: 07 April 2019, 12:09:02 am »
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2879 on: 07 April 2019, 12:22:56 am »

darrsi

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2880 on: 07 April 2019, 11:17:03 am »
 :rolleyes

More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2881 on: 07 April 2019, 12:59:44 pm »
 So, what is the reality of where we are now?


It boils down to the Good Friday agreement.  That means there can be no hard customs border between Eire and Northern Ireland.


A hard Brexit, ie NO DEAL, would mean some sort of hard border in Northern Ireland.


The Prime Minister has accepted that parliament would take whatever action it could to block a NO DEAL BREXIT.  Frankly it is common sense.


So the minimum requirement for an agreement on BREXIT is a customs union.   Hence the EU’s backstop, and it’s insistence that you cannot leave the customs union without it’s agreement.  Ie to leave you have to come up with a solution to the impossible.


But the customs union only covers actual goods, the UK economy today is a services economy.  Further we would be a rule taker and unable to make our own trade deals around the world.


Which brings us back to, why the foc do we want to leave?  It makes no sense.


So A50 has to be extended.  I think the EU will reject June as parliament shows no signs of moving forwards even though the reality is that May and Corbyn are effectively in agreement.  They are basically faffing about trying to find ways to disagree in order to hold their parties together. 



So it looks like a one year extension.  That means EU elections.  These will effectively become a second referendum in the absence of an actual referendum.


There is a danger of course that extremists such as UKIP and Nigel’s new party could win the bulk of the seats.


At the same time, it is likely that the SNP in Scotland will win the bulk of the Scottish seats (six seats available).  If England goes with UKIP and Nigel, and Scotland goes with the SNP, then I can’t see how a second Independence referendum can be avoided.  I think it will be too tempting for the Greens and SNP to ignore.  So the extension could mean the end of Great Britain. 



So I come back to what I have been saying all along.  BREXIT is not possible.  And what possibilities there are, are absolutely and utterly undesirable. 



The only way out of this mess is to cancel article 50.


At the end of the day it’s not about whether you like the result of a referendum that should never have been held.  It’s about political and economic reality.


 

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2882 on: 07 April 2019, 02:41:01 pm »
Bad example. Of course the Grand National gets run every year. It's not just a one - off result.  :D

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2883 on: 07 April 2019, 03:15:03 pm »

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2884 on: 08 April 2019, 02:23:40 am »
I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again

"If we are to leave the European Union we want a sensible Brexit. There’s no chance of that just now."

I don't agree with all he says and some of it is factually incorrect, however he, at least, is speaking some sense and is willing to compromise, rather than risk a catastrophic No Deal as the "Sour grapes" option...


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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2885 on: 18 April 2019, 06:33:17 pm »
 That’s 11 pages Grahamm. :eek


As the chief political commentator for The Daily Telegraph, he might perhaps admit that he was part of the problem.  That he did his bit to deliver the madness that is BREXIT.


Anyway, I’m not convinced many here are going to read all that.  So I’ve picked off some quotes,


Quote
I admire the prime minister, think she’s a hero, and have been one of her strong supporters.
Which suggests The Chief Political editor of the Telegraph is off his trolley.  However…..
Quote
It is practically certain that the next Tory leader will rip up Mrs May’s deal, however sensible and well-intentioned, and then embark on another two-year-long attritional battle with Europe. Does anybody truly want this? And just think what damage will be done to Britain as a nation.
But the EU isn’t prepared to renegotiate.  And of course, May’s Deal settles nothing.  The risk is actually that the next Tory PM, that is if May ever goes, will crash us out of the EU.
Quote
Investment-led growth has collapsed, and we need to stare that undeniable fact squarely in the face. Just look at the events of the early months of this year.
Yup totally agree with him there.
Quote
I vividly recall the wave of national elation when Margaret Thatcher brought Japanese car manufacturers to the declining north-east of England in the 1980s. This was a turning point in British industrial history.
And I agree again, that BREXIT is risking the desolation of British manufacturing industry.  The Japanese car manufacturers are already leaving.
Quote
When she was home secretary, Theresa May kept promising to combat the relatively high levels of immigration. The reality was she was powerless to do anything about it.
That’s simply not true.  The truth is that she would not apply the rules of freedom of movement.  The truth is that freedom of movement within the EU is not an issue for the UK.
Quote
The EU has just signed a huge, ground-breaking free-trade deal with Japan. If we leave, we must begin complex negotiations to get something as good. Does anyone seriously think we could get something better?
Which is why we need to kill BREXIT now.  It’s possible that if we did Honda could be persuaded to stay.  And Nissan and Toyota persuaded not to leave as they are without doubt gearing up to do.
Quote
All that will happen in future is that the UK, post Brexit, will be forced to ask to piggyback on EU trade deals with, say, Japan to secure equal terms. Our only argument will be that the aggregation of our market to the EU’s will add strength. Which is no more than the restoration of the position had we remained in the EU.
Absolutely agree.  We already have and will get further excellent free trade agreements round the globe with continued EU membership.  Outside the EU if we manage to squeeze the same quality of deals, well to do so will practically take mirracles.
 
 
Quote
The Brexiteers made a succession of claims about leaving the EU that have turned out to be untrue. They said it would be quick and easy. They said that a raft of trade deals would be available by the time we left the EU. To quote Liam Fox, “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history. ”
Yes, Peter Oborne and your paper was part of the driving force behind the lies.  Surely this man should either persuade the editor and board of this paper to change tack, or leave.  This is not any ordinary issue.  It will, and may already be, determining the economic future of the UK.  BREXIT is in fact an extraordinary exercise in self harm.  And powers like The Telegraph have extraordinary in terms of influencing BREXIT.
 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2886 on: 18 April 2019, 06:37:05 pm »
Time fae a giggle;

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2887 on: 18 April 2019, 06:43:24 pm »
And sadly UKIP have decided to press the self destruct button and pretty much step aside for Nigel's BREXIT party.
I think we can now safely say UPKIP is now politcially finished.




unfazed

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2888 on: 18 April 2019, 07:22:54 pm »
Why not go back to the people and ask them if they want to have a second referendum on leave or don't leave, your parliament cannot decide what to do, so let the people do it.
Ballot paper would be simple,"Do you thnik we should have a second referendum on leaving the EU? Yes or No.  :eek
Or is that to simple?  :rolleyes

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2889 on: 18 April 2019, 07:46:28 pm »
A referendum on having a referendum? :eek :lol

unfazed

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2890 on: 18 April 2019, 08:37:40 pm »
Great solution, just too easy isn't it :rollin :rollin :rollin

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2891 on: 18 April 2019, 09:49:17 pm »
Quote
Great solution, just too easy isn't it :rollin :rollin :rollin

So what's the feeling down your way?  Don't hold back.
I would hazard a guess it's that the English have taken leave of their senses.  Are folks concerned, or just waiting to see what happens?



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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2892 on: 19 April 2019, 12:10:47 am »
Christ almighty are UKIP absolutely and utterly finished.  What the foc are they on :eek




unfazed

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2893 on: 19 April 2019, 12:53:57 am »
VNA,
Laughing stock of the EU, especially when they say they want something and then vote against it  :rollin :rollin :rollin
Great TV, its better than any soap opera  :lol
Watching the house of Parliament in action is nearly better than watching 'Yes Minister'. :lol

The Exit side appear to have forgotten why the EU was set up in the first place "To end the frequent and bloody wars between neighbouring countries, which culminated in the Second World War".  :(
It is likely to create a civil war in UK, which is why a double referendum is required as stated previously as it would be the safest option, it sounds like a laughable joke, but it would resolve the issue and prevent a possible civil war.

We had a bloody civil war here in Ireland in 1921 when the country was divided in the direction to take, it turned neighbours against each other even family members against each other and it has taken over 3 generations to get come back from it. I remember growing up back in the 60s where neighbours did not speak to each other over a war than ended 40 years previous.

Another possible outcome if you do leave is, in 2 years Scotland vote to leave the UK to get back into EU Norther Ireland will follow suit 2 years later and then the Welsh will start thinking of doing the same. What started out as Brexit will be a break up the Union.
Then Who am I but just a unbiased casual observer who will need a green card, a passport and pain in the arse customs stops every time I want to visit friends in the UK or pass through the UK to get to France Spain or Netherlands because all the ferries in Ireland to mainland Europe are full when/if the Exiters have their way  :'(
« Last Edit: 19 April 2019, 12:55:31 am by unfazed »

darrsi

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2894 on: 19 April 2019, 07:26:09 am »
I'm still no wiser about any of it, possibly because i've chosen to switch off whenever it's mentioned in discussions or on tv.
All i've learned is that politicians are bigger arseholes than i'd previously thought, as they've been in the limelight so much in previous months.
And i mean all of them, not just some of them, it's just that some are much bigger arseholes than the others.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2895 on: 19 April 2019, 09:09:09 am »
It's all about survival of the Tory party. Always has been and still is.  :o

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2896 on: 19 April 2019, 10:45:47 am »
 
Quote
Watching the house of Parliament in action is nearly better than watching 'Yes Minister'. :lol

 
Aye political satirists in the UK are now all unemployed.  The BREXITEERS have put them out of business.


Personally, whilst there is the possibility of civil unrest, at least to some small degree, I cannot see any risk of civil war.  I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.



I absolutely take your point on why the European project was started in the first place.  It locks all member states together and forces them to sit down, discuss, and find working solutions to any problem or disagreement.  On that it has absolutely delivered.  What was previously a war torn bitterly divided continent is very much largely at peace.


But are people in Ireland concerned?  A hard BREXIT, should it happen, will have a massive economic impact on ordinary people in the UK.   We do a shit load of trade with Ireland, and I would guess we are your biggest agricultural customer.  A hard BREXIT won’t hit you as hard as us, but Ireland could be dragged into recession to some degree.


Then of course the most important part for me is that we cannot undermine The Good Friday agreement.  A hard BREXIT effectively tears up that agreement and forces a border between NI and Eire.  I don’t think a hard BREXIT will happen, but it could happen.


Our parliament is frozen, stuck solid, a referendum does seem the only way forward.  That in itself is a major worry.  Today the truth is fake, and we have alternative facts if you don’t like reality. 
 

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2897 on: 19 April 2019, 02:22:16 pm »
Back with the pictures  :D

unfazed

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2898 on: 19 April 2019, 05:32:17 pm »
Personally, whilst there is the possibility of civil unrest, at least to some small degree, I cannot see any risk of civil war.  I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.
It may not be a civil war as we know of in the past but will be in the same vane of families and friends and neighbours turning against each other, if there is not a quick fix, but a recession/depression then it could escalate to be more serious and even though nobody wants it, with people playing the blame game.
.
I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.
The difference there was that nothing changed, but Brexit is a different story completely. There will be major changes.

But are people in Ireland concerned?  A hard BREXIT, should it happen, will have a massive economic impact on ordinary people in the UK.   We do a shit load of trade with Ireland, and I would guess we are your biggest agricultural customer.  A hard BREXIT won’t hit you as hard as us, but Ireland could be dragged into recession to some degree.

Then of course the most important part for me is that we cannot undermine The Good Friday agreement.  A hard BREXIT effectively tears up that agreement and forces a border between NI and Eire.  I don’t think a hard BREXIT will happen, but it could happen.
People in Southern Ireland are concerned, but not as much as people Northern Ireland, there is a generation of people in Northern Ireland who have never known trouble times thanks to the Good Friday agreement. They voted to stay in the EU and the party holding the balance of power in Westminister seem to have forgotten that.
The two leading parties in Northern Ireland are so far apart in there heads it is frightening. It needs a third large party with the good parts of both side up there to resolve the problems not two pig headed one track minded parties, both with their own hidden agendas.  :eek Don't get me wrong I would love to see a United Ireland, but these two parties will not achieve it if they cannot even agree on running a government together. Brexit is probably the one thing that may result in a United Ireland
Southern Ireland needs the UK as much as the Uk needs Southern Ireland as they are so intrinsically intertwined going back to 1170 when the Pope asked the King of England to invade Ireland to bring them back on the true path of Catholicism. :rolleyes The horrors of past deeds on both sides need to be consigned to the history books, but learned from (O difficult but necessary) to ensure they never happen again.

The vote to leave the EU was taken in the midst of the Migrant crisis and untruths by the leave group, unchallenged by the stay group and probably the worst possible timing ever seen for a that vote.
I was over and back to Wales regularly after the vote and seeing Wales vote to leave. Met a lot of people in their mid twenties who had jobs and worked on EU Projects could not believe the majority voted to leave. Even they wondered as did I if they were blind to the signs on roads and cities of 10 to 20 projects funded by the Eu to a cost far greater than the UK paid in.
Wealthy people like Nigel Farage who earns between 500,000 to 800,000 a year and can afford private planes to bring him to meetings and Boris Johnson earning over 500,000 a year (Both with net worths over 1.5 million) do not have the will of the working class at heart only what they can gain from the chaos.





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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #2899 on: 19 April 2019, 08:15:13 pm »
 Thanks Unfazed.  Good to get the view from Ireland.

Quote
The difference there was that nothing changed, but Brexit is a different story completely. There will be major changes.
But nothing has yet changed with BREXIT.  And with luck nothing will change, but there is a different mood in England and small but not insignificant extreme right.
Quote
Brexit is probably the one thing that may result in a United Ireland
I have been wondering that perhaps, more and more, young Unionists will begin to understand that their so-called Tory friends in England don’t actually give a flying fuck about them.  That even they might begin to consider that they might just have a brighter future in a united Ireland.
Quote
Wealthy people like Nigel Farage who earns between 500,000 to 800,000 a year and can afford private planes to bring him to meetings and Boris Johnson earning over 500,000 a year (Both with net worths over 1.5 million) do not have the will of the working class at heart only what they can gain from the chaos.
Yes, and according to Professor Minford, the darling economist of the Brexiteers, there is big money for them to be made from a hard BREXIT.  Don’t forget Jacob Rees Mogg – net worth 150 million.


As for Farage and Johnson, did you get your decimal place in the wrong place?  I would expect them both to worth a heck of a lot more than 1.5 million.