BREXIT

[fazersharp]

That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.

But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them.
What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!

But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them

Why not.

What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!

Why not.
 

[mtread]

Because a 'deal' involves 2 sides, and the other side won't let her


O and there's 27 of them

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

because I don't like living under their jackboot any more than you like living under the English one

Ogri, the jackboot is used as a symbol of cruel or authoritarian behaviour or rule.  Neither of which could be attributed to the EU or the UK.  The use of such language, whether directed at England or the EU, is offensive, uncalled for and unhelpful. 

This cartoon you posted is proof that you really don't get it, you posted it as an anti brexit cartoon but totally failed to understand how leavers would see it.

No, it just made me laugh.   All those wee references that come together to make it funny.  Peter Brookes, the cartoonist sketches for both left and right leaning publications.

Let me try and help you.

No, no, no, please fazersharp, do not even try and go there.

Take your loathing of the English and the hatread and contempt you so readily spew out against "Westminster" - actually doesn't matter to you which government sits there. Unfortunately for you Vladimir already has a job.

Jesus you can't help yourself, can you?  I have no loathing of the English.  I have as a Scot had decades of government I did not vote for, governments that my country did not vote for.  I wish England was different, but it isn’t, and it’s actually becoming increasingly extreme, so much so it even wants to walk away from the EU.  England is swinging hard to the right, the extreme right.

Well a lot of your reasons and thinking are the same as a lot of leavers but instead they are directed at the way the EU is run.  Strange how a scots independence voter does not want to be ruled from "westminster"  all of 400 miles away but perfectly happy to take rules from Brussels 700 miles away.

No absolutely not.  England is increasingly suffering from nationalism.  Scotland simply wants political independance, but within a wider economic union.


But then I understand something that you clearly do not.  I understand the difference between economic union and sovereign union.  Nor am I, unlike you, an isolationist.
 
 
 

[J_Dub]

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?

or Switzerland?

In order to trade with the EU Switzerland pays into the EU, has had to adopt EU laws and takes EU immigrants.

[fazersharp]

  Scotland simply wants political independance
 

You will not be getting that in the EU.Since the very concept of the EU it has progressively evolved towards a political union or in EU speak - ‘institutional convergence’ with European Union member states.It starts with the expansion of the processes of economic integration, but that can only go so far without the need for ever more political integration with the ultimate goal of a Europen superstate with the old countries now just "provinces".
From what you say you want I doesn't make sense that you want to stay in the EU. I think I know your plan --- to ride on the back of remaining in the EU to get your scots indi and then sponge off the EU for a while (after all they will be flush with cash after they trousered our £39b) then at a later date when the cash drys up and the political union intensifys you then remove yourself from the EU.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Quote from: VNA on 01 February 2019, 08:49:06 PM<blockquote>Quote<blockquote>MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?</blockquote> Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.   A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.
 
</blockquote>That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.

If you wanted to REMAIN in the single market, then why did you vote for BREXIT knowing that you were putting our single market membership at risk.  It is absolutely essential for this countries future, and in particular for us ordinary punters in this country, that the UK continues to be part of the single market.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.
 
How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.
 

Quote from: fazersharp on 31 January 2019, 09:59:29 PM
 
    Quote from: VNA on 31 January 2019, 09:14:29 PM
 
 
        And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.
 
    How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?
 
 
 
or Switzerland?

Switzerland, as far as I am aware, has not suffered long term murderous occupation and dictatorship at the hands of an imperialist nation.  Nor in regaining it’s sovereignty, and indeed dignity, has it had to give up a chunk of it’s territory over to British plantationists. 



If the UK leaves the single market and customs union there will have to be a hard border between Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland.  Putting a hard border back inside Ireland will, more than likely, result in most serious unrest. The Westminster parliament has a responsibility to uphold The Good Friday Agreement, and ensure continuing peace in Ireland and the UK as a whole.  Leaving the customs union must not happen.
 

[fazersharp]

If you wanted to REMAIN in the single market, then why did you vote for BREXIT knowing that you were putting our single market membership at risk.  It is absolutely essential for this countries future, and in particular for us ordinary punters in this country, that the UK continues to be part of the single market.

Because I don't want all the other stuff that go's with it.Like DRL's and straight bananas and low powered vacuums and paying £350million a week when that money could fund the health service instead.  

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/02/nissan-x-trail-uk-brexit
 This is worrying.


Nissan is refusing to deny rumours that it is about to reverse it’s plans to build the X-Trail in Sunderland.


The big question is – is this down to a current global downturn in the car market – or is the X-Trail going to now be built in France to guarantee single market access.
 

[fazersharp]

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 DRL’s – even with a NO DEAL I am afraid you will still be left bitching about DRL’s – they are here to stay.


Bananas – Legislation relating to bananas, ie standard grading of bananas was introduced by the EU at the request of the fruit and veg industry.


low powered vacuums – The EU has a rolling plan if legislation to ensure that the goods we buy in the shops are fit for purpose and efficient.  My 800w Miele vacuum cleaner is the most powerful vacuum cleaner I have ever owned by a country mile.  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.  It is at least ten times more powerful than the 2500w Zanusi piece of junk it replaced.  We need more fit for purpose legislation – not less.


The 350 million quid a week lie.  You still believe that?


These are your reasons for wanting trashing our economy?
 

[YamFazFan]

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out

I've googled. It's true, it does

[fazersharp]

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out

I've googled. It's true, it does

Told you !
Proof as I say that VNA knows nothing other than the legislation relating to bananas.

[fazersharp]

  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.

There he go's again proving his champagne socialist credentials with his Carpet     

[agricola]

I, like other Leavers on here, likely still wish to trade with the EU, and the rest of the world. The EU now is not what it once was, a confederation of trading nations, a common market, beneficial in principle to its members. But the EU has changed, and will continue to change, becoming ever more influential in domestic affairs. It wishes to have its own army, but under who's control. It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction. And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army. I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war. I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating. Many will simply slip into the black economy, or into crime, because they are incapable of integrating, and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference. I want to be able to elect the government of the United Kingdom, and know that that is where the responsibility lies. I do not want the United Kingdom electorate to elect a government that has committed to policies of public spending, only to find that the UNELECTED tells said government that it cannot implement those policies as they do not agree with them. Just like Italy, Greece, and Spain, with possibly Portugal not far away too.

I don't expect, or particularly want you to reply, I respect your views but cannot agree with them. I said in an earlier post that the EU is like a cancer, slowly spreading, ever weakening resistance by doshing out cash to potential dissenters. That is still my view. I'm not debating it.

As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it. Certainly, a political party that campaigns on strongly tackling crime, upping defence spending, cleaning up the streets, clamping down severely on unlicensed/illegal/untaxed vehicles/ensuring all people and business's with earnings in the UK pay the appropriate level of taxation/deporting illegal immigrants, would likely win an election

[YamFazFan]

  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.

There he go's again proving his champagne socialist credentials with his Carpet   

 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

It wishes to have its own army,

Nope it’s never going to happen.

It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction.

It can only take a position on foreign affairs if all 27(28 maybe) states are in agreement.

And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army.

It will never have an army, and the EU is it’s 27 (28) member states.  That is what it is.

I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war.

Let us not forget that Great Britain raped and pillaged it’s way round the globe.  Surpise surpise, GB ain't the most popular brand round the globe by a country mile.

 

I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating.

I object to British imperialism.  I object to illegal wars.  I objected to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, as I did Iraq and objected also to Cameron’s dumb war in Libya.


I object to Britain selling arms to the Wahhabist state of Saudi, who then blow up school buses full of children.  Do not forget that the birth place and major sponsor of the Wahhabist fundamentalist Islamic movement is Saudi Arabia.  It is Saudi Arabia that gave us al-Qaeda then the Islamic State.  Saudi are important allies of ours you know.


I object this countries proxy war in Syria.  Our foreign policy has displaced many millions around the globe in recent years.  We destroyed their countries, we fed the Wahhabist monster, we bombed their wedding parties, and now we throw our hands up in horror as these masses seek sanctuary from the hell we created for them.


 

and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference.

You ever heard of The British Empire?  You want a discussion on imposing culture, do you?  Do you think the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, just to name three welcomed our political interference?  When will the UK give up it’s dirty filthy imperialistic ways.

As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it.

Yes, England voted for it and the now UK has it.  That’s why we are in this foccing mess, it’s why ordinary people have paid the price for the financial crises of 2008, and it’s why we now heading into recession. 
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 Meanwhile back to BREXIT.


We need to wait and see what the reason behind this NISSAN decision is.  Is manufacture of the X-Trail not coming to Europe because of the current global slowdown in car sales, or is it simply that NISSAN have decided to build it in France.


I’d say if NISSAN announce the X-Trail is moving to France, you will be looking at the beginning of the end of major manufacturing in the UK.


Happy BREXIT foccers.
 

[ogri48]

I, like other Leavers on here, likely still wish to trade with the EU, and the rest of the world. The EU now is not what it once was, a confederation of trading nations, a common market, beneficial in principle to its members. But the EU has changed, and will continue to change, becoming ever more influential in domestic affairs. It wishes to have its own army, but under who's control. It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction. And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army. I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war. I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating. Many will simply slip into the black economy, or into crime, because they are incapable of integrating, and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference. I want to be able to elect the government of the United Kingdom, and know that that is where the responsibility lies. I do not want the United Kingdom electorate to elect a government that has committed to policies of public spending, only to find that the UNELECTED tells said government that it cannot implement those policies as they do not agree with them. Just like Italy, Greece, and Spain, with possibly Portugal not far away too.

I don't expect, or particularly want you to reply, I respect your views but cannot agree with them. I said in an earlier post that the EU is like a cancer, slowly spreading, ever weakening resistance by doshing out cash to potential dissenters. That is still my view. I'm not debating it.

As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it. Certainly, a political party that campaigns on strongly tackling crime, upping defence spending, cleaning up the streets, clamping down severely on unlicensed/illegal/untaxed vehicles/ensuring all people and business's with earnings in the UK pay the appropriate level of taxation/deporting illegal immigrants, would likely win an election

my thoughts exactly ta mate

[Dynspud]

Couldn't have put it better myself!!
And I'm pretty sure it's for these reasons that most leavers voted to leave in the first place.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 One thing that has truck me in the last few months is the absolute weakness of the argument from the BREXITEERS.  People who voted for BREXIT can’t actually tell you why they voted for BREXIT, at least not in real substantial factual political terms.  Or if they can, to some degree, it’s daylight running lamps, bent bananas and 350 million a week more for the NHS – one non-issue and two lies there then.


Increasingly what we now hear is nationalism.  English Nationalism.  Patriotic fighting talk.  England is at it’s best when it stands alone.  Of course, they kinda forget that this is actually about the UK.  And standing alone - well there was a few wee nice tweets from Dan Snow this week, I think he appears to be a little irritated at the creeping nationalism in England;

Britain did indeed fight with extraordinary determination against the Axis Powers. British civilians and servicemen and women displayed enormous bravery and sacrifice. The human and economic cost was vast. But Britain did not fight alone.
Even after the fall of Britain's W European allies in 1939-40 Britain had India, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and many other countries in its corner. The collective economic might of the UK, its dominions and colonies approached that the of the mighty USA
Once the USA and Soviets joined it was by pooling resources and integrating command structures that the allies were able to project overwhelming strength onto the battlefield against their enemies.
British troops often went into battle under American or other allied command. And vice versa. Polish squadrons fighting under a New Zealander played a hugely important role in the Battle of Britain, while...
..on D-day British, US, Canadian and other troops landed, commanded by British general Montgomery, working to a plan set by American Supreme Commander Eisenhower. There were slightly more British Empire than US troops. (By VE Day there were many more Americans)
Meanwhile in South East Asia a vast coalition of allies fought under British supreme command.
At the very highest level Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt debated strategy fiercely. Churchill lost, on Poland at Yalta for example, but also won on things like a French occupation zone in Germany.
At Tehran Churchill was bullied into abandoning plans in the eastern Mediterranean in favour of D-day in the west. He said he felt like the 'poor little English donkey' between the mighty Russian bear and American buffalo.
He gave in. But in return Stalin agreed to time a massive Soviet offensive in the East with the allied landings in the west and agreed to join the war against Japan.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

But you want to stand alone?  Do you?

Britain has fought in A LOT of coalitions. They are expensive, frustrating & often inefficient but we're ultimately victorious. Britain has lost only one great power war in the last 250yrs. The American Revolutionary War, when, funnily enough, Britain was fighting alone

[mtread]

Because I don't want all the other stuff that go's with it.Like

........ jobs?

[mtread]

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 


QuoteThe EU has no shared border with Brazil.



   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out
</blockquote>

I've googled. It's true, it does

Yes the French EU Overseas Territory shares a border with Brazil. It's a closed border, unlike Switzerland. Unlike Ireland, it doesn't have the potential for terrorism. What's your point?

[slappy]

It wishes to have its own army,

Nope it’s never going to happen.

Absolute bollocks, in 2018 Merkel and Macron  were both backing the creation of a EU army ,
A spokesperson for the commission’s president [/size]Jean-Claude Juncker[/color]said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.[/font][/color][/size][/color][/size][/color]