Date: 25-03-19  Time: 04:35 AM

Author Topic: Just for VNA a brexit thread  (Read 38131 times)

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1500 on: 13 January 2019, 06:19:00 PM »
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 06:19:40 PM by fazersharp »
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ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1501 on: 13 January 2019, 06:21:53 PM »
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   

you'd think so, but I doubt it mate. Their own personal self serving agendas come before loyalty to party or country nowadays. All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1502 on: 13 January 2019, 07:06:50 PM »
 
Quote
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   
Well no, because every single Tory will vote that they have confidence in Ms May.  The DUP will vote that they have confidence in May.  Labour will loose the no confidence vote.
Quote
Their own personal self serving agendas come before loyalty to party or country nowadays.
MP’s have a duty to represent the best interest of their constituents.  That's it.
Quote
All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either
I haven’t seen any polls that say that.  And if that is the case (and I doubt it), it’s what people in England want but it certainly ain’t what people in Northern Ireland or Scotland want. 



And let us not forget what May’s deal is.  It is an agreement that allows us to continue to trade with the EU as members of the single market.  However, we will be a rule taker, we will no longer have any say whatsoever in the market.  It simply allows to continue to trade while we try to reach an agreement on our future trading arrangements.  It’s a transitional deal.  It is not a deal to leave the EU.
 

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1503 on: 13 January 2019, 07:13:34 PM »
 
Quote
I try to stay out of politics but I am really worried about Brexit not going ahead.(for whatever reason)
Whereas a great many people are seriously worried that BREXIT may actually happen one day.  That is whatever BRXIT is.
Quote
The UK is a democracy and people who voted to stay or leave should all agree that the vote should be honoured.
The UK is a representative democracy.  We elect people to govern in our best interest and take decisions on our behalf. 



Further there are four countries in the UK.  We are a sovereign union.  2 out of the 4 countreis in this union voted to REMAIN.
Quote
If it isn't then the whole system comes crashing down, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).
Whereas as what we are actually seeing is a representative democracy acting as it should.  MP’s are ignoring their party whips and acting in the best interests of their constituents. :)
 

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1504 on: 13 January 2019, 07:17:06 PM »
Quote
and therefore attracts VAT which -------that's rights go's to the EU
Err no it doesn't. It's Customs Duties which go to the EU. That's because of the EU wide free trade area. A small proportion of all VAT collected goes to the EU. That's how they calculate each member state's relative contribution. Before rebates of course.
Get it right  :rolleyes

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1505 on: 13 January 2019, 07:51:43 PM »
Quote
and therefore attracts VAT which -------that's rights go's to the EU
Err no it doesn't. It's Customs Duties which go to the EU. That's because of the EU wide free trade area. A small proportion of all VAT collected goes to the EU. That's how they calculate each member state's relative contribution. Before rebates of course.
Get it right  :rolleyes
My yellow vest post was tongue in cheek and was meant as a joke - you have to go and suck the joy out of everything.
You say a small proportion but it did add up to between 15% and 21% of the EUs yearly revenue income between 2000 and 2014 
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 08:06:09 PM by fazersharp »
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mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1506 on: 13 January 2019, 08:22:33 PM »
Then you should have put a wink/smiley/chuckle after! You told me off once for not doing that  :)
Yes I've just Googled the same pages as you. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics  :lol

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1507 on: 13 January 2019, 08:23:48 PM »
 
Quote
Just to suck a bit more non-existent joy out of your non-existent unfunny joke;
I just like to point out that before we had VAT we had the much more complicated and costly to administer Purchase Tax. 
 

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1508 on: 13 January 2019, 08:35:53 PM »
Quote
All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either
I've just google poll of polls etc, and I can't come up with anything like that.
This is what I am coming up with;
There is the whatukthinks.org complied poll of polls results from polls asking common questions.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union? Result as of 11th January.
.
REMAIN – 47%LEAVE 45%....
If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?.
.
Result as of 4th January.
REMAIN – 46%LEAVE – 39%....
Poll of all phone pollsREMAIN – 62%LEAVE – 38%VNA’s poll of all the polls poll
.
REMAIN – 52%LEAVE – 41% :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)



 
 


 
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 08:40:15 PM by VNA »

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1509 on: 13 January 2019, 08:46:48 PM »
Then you should have put a wink/smiley/chuckle after! You told me off once for not doing that  :)
:uhuh Yes you are right  :eek   I suppose I should of  :o but no one other than a rabid remainer  :evil would thought  :think that I was seriously going to open a yellow vest shop  :rolleyes so I did not think It needed one :pokefun ;) :smokin :kiss :lol
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 08:47:56 PM by fazersharp »
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mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1510 on: 13 January 2019, 08:53:04 PM »
Quote
I just like to point out that before we had VAT we had the much more complicated and costly to administer Purchase Tax. 
VAT replaced Purchase Tax and Selective Employment Tax (SET). To be fair VAT is probably more costly and certainly more complicated than PT. However VAT brings in a lot more revenue than PT ever did, even allowing for inflation. But of course that is why Income Tax and Corporation Tax rates are so low. VAT is making up the difference, paying for NHS, Defence, Education etc etc.
There I go, sucking the joy out of everything with my specialist subject  :)

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1511 on: 13 January 2019, 08:54:34 PM »
REMAIN – 52%LEAVE – 41% :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I just googled how many people in the uk believes in aliens and it is also 52% (u-gov)
 Your above figures only add up to 93% does that mean that perhaps the missing 7% have been abducted by the aliens that the 52% believe in ( :lol ) smiley for mtread
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fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1512 on: 13 January 2019, 08:57:41 PM »
Quote
There I go, sucking the joy out of everything with my specialist subject  :)

 
Quote

Yes I've just Googled the same pages as you. .


 
Quote
You said that you googled it. Or is that what constitutes as a specialist
------- DAMIT i can not get my own words out of this quote box
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 09:11:33 PM by fazersharp »
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dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1513 on: 13 January 2019, 09:32:34 PM »
This is all getting a bit too civilised for my liking.....Where's my stick.....time to do some cage rattling.  :lol

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1514 on: 13 January 2019, 09:40:33 PM »
Quote
I just googled how many people in the uk believes in aliens and it is also 52% (u-gov)
 Your above figures only add up to 93% does that mean that perhaps the missing 7% have been abducted by the aliens that the 52% believe in ( :lol ) smiley for mtread


Let me see if I can help;


Leave – 41%
REMAIN – 52%
Don’t know – 7%




:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
 
« Last Edit: 13 January 2019, 09:47:08 PM by VNA »

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1515 on: 13 January 2019, 10:17:00 PM »
Quote
but no one other than a rabid remainer  would thought   that I was seriously going to open a yellow vest shop 

I had no doubt whatsoever you were going to open a yellow vest shop. If only I'd been wearing one when that dog bit me  :lol

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1516 on: 14 January 2019, 04:13:12 AM »
Quote
I'm sure it was not general comment about the majority of Muslims,
But it seems to be perfectly OK on this forum to repeatedly insinuate just that.  Not only that but praise for those who intimidate ethnic minorities goes largely unchallenged.

Flooky

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1517 on: 14 January 2019, 10:36:11 AM »
Quote
I try to stay out of politics but I am really worried about Brexit not going ahead.(for whatever reason)
Whereas a great many people are seriously worried that BREXIT may actually happen one day.  That is whatever BRXIT is.
Quote
The UK is a democracy and people who voted to stay or leave should all agree that the vote should be honoured.
The UK is a representative democracy.  We elect people to govern in our best interest and take decisions on our behalf. 



Further there are four countries in the UK.  We are a sovereign union.  2 out of the 4 countreis in this union voted to REMAIN.
Quote
If it isn't then the whole system comes crashing down, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).
Whereas as what we are actually seeing is a representative democracy acting as it should.  MP’s are ignoring their party whips and acting in the best interests of their constituents. :)









As someone who has an obvious passion for politics, you should be more worried than most if the will of the people is not followed. What happens next time ? best of three ? people don't vote ? (whats the point ). just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1518 on: 14 January 2019, 11:16:05 AM »
Emergency Cabinet meeting today in advance of tomorrow's vote.

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1519 on: 14 January 2019, 01:16:36 PM »
 
Quote
just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.

Flooky.  I don’t think we should ever loose sight of why this referendum occurred.   It was offered to the country by the Tory party as a means to unite it’s MP’s in order to win an election.  They decided to gamble our membership of the EU in order to win an election.  They won the election, but gamble has exploded.


You say you hope this goes through.  But then what exactly is going to go through?  With just a few weeks to go nobody yet knows what BREXIT is.


Again,you say we should all hope this goes through, whatever that is.  But do you really think people in Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted to REMAIN all want this to go through? 
 
« Last Edit: 14 January 2019, 01:49:11 PM by VNA »

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1520 on: 14 January 2019, 01:48:21 PM »
 Meanwhile I’m getting a little pissed off at people both admiring Theresa May and feeling sorry for her.  Apparently, the majority of the house, if we are to believe the popular media, is doing everything it can to wreck her plans and give her a hard time for the sake of it.
 
So, lets look at the reality of the situation.  She jumped at the chance of becoming PM, knowing full well it was a poisoned chalice.  Though then again, you could argue she was making a sacrifice to save us from Boris Johnston or Jacob Rees Mogg, and as much as I dislike May, anything is better than Boris – surely?


Having become PM, it didn’t take her too long to realise the challenge she had accepted was simply impossible.  With rebels in her ranks, her 12 seat majority was simply way too thin.


With Corbyn now at the helm of the Labour party, and with the popular media tearing him to shreds on a daily basis along with his less than confident performances in the house May saw a chance to solve all her problems.  With absolute certainty that Corbyn’s Labour would be wiped out at the polls she called a snap general election and waited to see how massive her majority would be after polling day.  With a massive majority she could easily negotiate a deal with the EU and vote it straight through parliament.  But we all know what happened next.


So now with no majority, but having managed a confidence and supply deal with the DUP – basically she bought their support with our cash – May now found herself further isolated in terms of BREXIT.


So, what did May do now.  Did she reach out to parliament?  Did she consider putting together a cross party BREXIT committee or other consultative means to try and find a way to negotiate a deal that would satisfy the house.  Nope.  She fell back on a 1539 law that allowed the Tudor Monarch to govern by proclamation.  May intended to bypass parliament and in doing so our whole democratic process in order to dictate BREXIT.


So, she’s made her bed, and now she has to lie in it.  I do not feel sorry for her one wee bit.


I may to some degree admire her strength and determination, but that strength and determination is also her greatest weakness.  She is a woman incapable of team work, a woman who cannot build bridges, seek consensus or compromise.  She was in fact always the wrong person for the job, and even in the best of times would struggle to operate as a successful PM.


This is May’s catastrophe.  And having endured an incompetent PM for the last couple of years or so parliament is left with the responsibility to clean up her mess.
 

Flooky

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1521 on: 14 January 2019, 05:23:02 PM »
Quote
just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.

Flooky.  I don’t think we should ever loose sight of why this referendum occurred.   It was offered to the country by the Tory party as a means to unite it’s MP’s in order to win an election.  They decided to gamble our membership of the EU in order to win an election.  They won the election, but gamble has exploded.


You say you hope this goes through.  But then what exactly is going to go through?  With just a few weeks to go nobody yet knows what BREXIT is.


Again,you say we should all hope this goes through, whatever that is.  But do you really think people in Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted to REMAIN all want this to go through?





Why we had the vote is immaterial, it happened, it was democratic and it was close but it must be honoured, what Scotland and northern Island think is also not a valid reason to not honour the vote. It is a different argument whether they should have their own say or not, as it stands the UK voted to leave the EU. If it doesn't happen a massive change in our way of life has occurred. Leaving the EU will be bumpy , but we and they will get over it. A government ignoring the will of the people we will not get over. I love bikes which is why I am on this forum so I will leave politics alone now, If I don't reply any more I am not being rude, just wanna read about bikes. xx

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1522 on: 14 January 2019, 07:10:01 PM »
 Flooky, how we came to have this referendum is of course important.  It was offered with no thought given, whatsoever, to the consequences should the UK as a whole vote to leave the EU.  It was reckless behaviour on the part of the Tory party in order to win an election.
Quote
what Scotland and northern Island think is also not a valid reason to not honour the vote
Indeed, and that is how a great many of us feel in Scotland and Northern Ireland.  As you say we don’t count, our view and our future is of no interest to Tory politicians at Westminster.  Democracy is for the English, not the Scots or Irish.
Quote
Leaving the EU will be bumpy , but we and they will get over it.
Indeed it will.  Whatever leaving actually means - and indeed if we ever do.  It will not effect those who offered us the referendum, putting party before country in doing so, nor will it effect those negotiating the deal – that if, again, there ever is a deal.  However, if we leave it will be ordinary punters like you and I that pay the price.


Even as things stand the UK is heading for a recession, BREXIT or no BREXIT.  Businesses are spending millions on contingency plans to avoid the chaos of a no deal – money that could be invested in their companies.  Inward investment has ground to a halt and day after day businesses announce job losses as the economic consequences if this whole mess continue to bite.  Retail spending is falling as people loose confidence in our future.

 
Quote
I love bikes which is why I am on this forum so I will leave politics alone now, If I don't reply any more I am not being rude, just wanna read about bikes. Xx

Can’t argue with that Flooky.    :kiss :eek
 

steve 10562cc

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1523 on: 14 January 2019, 07:33:05 PM »
If democracy was only for the English we would have been given a referendum for an independent England.  The same as the Scottish people had in which the majority of you voted against independence

VNA

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1524 on: 14 January 2019, 09:13:54 PM »
Quote
If democracy was only for the English we would have been given a referendum for an independent England.
That rather makes my point.  People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU.  You are right to suggest it was given to us, as indeed it was.
However, one would expect to ask for a referendum, as opposed to be given something that was never requested.