Date: 28-03-24  Time: 14:22 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209705 times)

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1000 on: 18 December 2018, 09:51:30 am »
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Sorry I'll get my coat  [/size]

A Mackintosh no doubt  :)

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1001 on: 18 December 2018, 01:00:16 pm »

ok.
its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.


Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.


On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all




Flooky

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1002 on: 18 December 2018, 01:21:05 pm »
That is exactly it for me, win lose or draw we shouls all respect the result..ignore it at our peril (whayever our feeling )

ok.
its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.


Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.


On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1003 on: 18 December 2018, 01:21:37 pm »
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Nobody ever called Brexiteers impudent or racist. The only person I've called racist is Stephen Yaxley Lennon, and I stand by that 100%.
Yes I'm a democrat, so much so that I believe people can change their minds, as they do every 5 years when we elect new MPs that form a new government. The electorate today would not be the same electorate as 2016.
The last referendum was tainted with lies, illegal foreign money and did not make clear what would come after a Leave result.
As to Cameron, do you really believe what politicians say? He was convinced he was going to win.


What is important now is to get us out of this stalemate. May's method is to delay to the brink so her deal becomes the only viable option left.
« Last Edit: 18 December 2018, 01:25:06 pm by mtread »

Flooky

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1004 on: 18 December 2018, 01:23:27 pm »
cant even type now ! but you know what I mean, non of us want to feel that our opinions are ignored..I think if it doesn't go ahead it will kick off..big style.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1005 on: 18 December 2018, 01:28:24 pm »
Whatever happens, a large proportion of the population will be ignored. That's the trouble with referendums. That's why we elect governments to decide for us.

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1006 on: 18 December 2018, 01:48:51 pm »
Well said ogri.When it is thrown upon leavers "you didn't all vote for the same version of leave" I wonder how many remain voters actually fully agree with the whole EU concept, I think they all want different versions of an EU. I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.

Remainers talk about leavers being deluded but leavers are not deluded they can see and understand with perfect clarity what the remainers cannot, which is the EU will not change their course it will forever keep marching on with the EU project, they think that by being in it they can influence it which is the most deluded concept of all. 
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fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1007 on: 18 December 2018, 01:54:36 pm »
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Nobody ever called Brexiteers impudent or racist.
:eek Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1008 on: 18 December 2018, 02:52:59 pm »
Quote
I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.
No the EU isn't perfect. All those examples you've given either haven't happened or we have opted out of.
Quote
Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist

Where?
What concerns me is that the only ones threatening violence on the streets if they don't get what they want, are Leavers :eek



fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1009 on: 18 December 2018, 03:35:45 pm »

Quote
Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist

Where?
Right here Brexit specs in these you posted
Brexit specs excludes brown hues. Berxiteer bingo, muslamic ray guns,immigrants,Im not a racist -but, they dont speak English,
« Last Edit: 18 December 2018, 03:50:30 pm by fazersharp »
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fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1010 on: 18 December 2018, 03:46:01 pm »
Quote
I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.
No the EU isn't perfect. All those examples you've given either haven't happened or we have opted out of.
The EU direction is clear and has been stated so as a goal. If the referendum is overturned and we end up staying in how much longer after that do you think we will still be able to "opt out" of elements, by staying in the whole EU project will be re- energised and accelerated so those bits you say are not perfect will only get worse.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1011 on: 18 December 2018, 03:48:04 pm »
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol



mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1012 on: 18 December 2018, 03:55:50 pm »
Quote
The EU direction is clear and has been stated so as a goal. If the referendum is overturned and we end up staying in how much longer after that do you think we will still be able to "opt out" of elements, by staying in the whole EU project will be re- energised and accelerated so those bits you say are not perfect will only get worse.
I think that's an exaggeration. The EU army is a proposal made by some member states, not a goal. All 27 states would have to agree.
So, according to your last statement we should have voted Remain to consolidate our opt out rights? Anyway, if we rescind Article 50, technically we won't have left at all. There is no clamour for anybody to join the Euro. They've has their fingers burnt with Greece and Ireland.



fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1013 on: 18 December 2018, 04:56:53 pm »
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol
I am sure that are lots of people in solitary confinement who would of loved to be able to use that excuse in their defence 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1014 on: 18 December 2018, 05:52:11 pm »
.... and I'm sure there have been lots of people wrongly locked up because of the actions of others....

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1015 on: 18 December 2018, 05:56:03 pm »
So the latest, May pretends to be looking at a No Deal result, and Rees-Mogg supports May.


It's all about saving the Tories  :(

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1016 on: 18 December 2018, 06:28:42 pm »
 
Quote
ok.
 its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
 lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
 lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
 And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.

Dear oh dear Ogri.
I think we have already in this thread established that the EU is actually a democratic union.
Rhetoric is all well and good.  But 40 odd pages in and we are still hearing off the EU “gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in” yet so far when pressed the foc u BREXITEERS have come up with;
Daylight running lights
Graded bananas
Oh and lets not forget Dazza’a great grandfather.
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Stephen Yaxley Lennon rightly got called out as a fascist and racist.   Indeed Nigel Farage tore up his UKIP membership card in disgust at his appointment.
Quote
Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
Yup in order to kill UKIP and win and election he gambled on our EU membership – membership that he himself believes is of great importance to our union.  What an ass.
 
Quote
So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Firstly, I don’t believe we should allow the Tory party to wreck this nation.
Secondly, I don’t believe people voted for unemployment and more food banks.
Thirdly – two countries in this union voted to REMAIN.  My country voted decisively to REMAIN, I fully expect the Scottish Parliament and our representatives at Westminster to fight to REMAIN in the EU.  If you believe in democracy you’ll understand and respect that.
Fourthly – BREXIT was not defined in the referendum.  Yes the race card was played, the central message of being 350 million a week better off was a blatant lie and illegal foreign money was used in the campaign.


So aye some off us are mighty pissed off at this English Tory mess.  Right now the UK is adrift at sea with nobody at the helm. 
 
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1017 on: 18 December 2018, 06:30:53 pm »
It must time fae another funny :lol


mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1018 on: 18 December 2018, 07:46:40 pm »
Perhaps the No Deal Brexiteers could answer these simple questions :


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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1019 on: 18 December 2018, 07:51:09 pm »



On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all


Brilliant post. My thoughts entirely.

agricola

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1020 on: 18 December 2018, 09:14:43 pm »
Quote
ok.
 its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
 lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
 lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
 And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.

Dear oh dear Ogri.
I think we have already in this thread established that the EU is actually a democratic union.
Rhetoric is all well and good.  But 40 odd pages in and we are still hearing off the EU “gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in” yet so far when pressed the foc u BREXITEERS have come up with;
Daylight running lights
Graded bananas
Oh and lets not forget Dazza’a great grandfather.
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Stephen Yaxley Lennon rightly got called out as a fascist and racist.   Indeed Nigel Farage tore up his UKIP membership card in disgust at his appointment.
Quote
Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
Yup in order to kill UKIP and win and election he gambled on our EU membership – membership that he himself believes is of great importance to our union.  What an ass.
 
Quote
So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Firstly, I don’t believe we should allow the Tory party to wreck this nation.
Secondly, I don’t believe people voted for unemployment and more food banks.
Thirdly – two countries in this union voted to REMAIN.  My country voted decisively to REMAIN, I fully expect the Scottish Parliament and our representatives at Westminster to fight to REMAIN in the EU.  If you believe in democracy you’ll understand and respect that.
Fourthly – BREXIT was not defined in the referendum.  Yes the race card was played, the central message of being 350 million a week better off was a blatant lie and illegal foreign money was used in the campaign.


So aye some off us are mighty pissed off at this English Tory mess.  Right now the UK is adrift at sea with nobody at the helm.

I begin to wonder why youre bothered? When we leave, according to you, Scotland will launch an other independence campaign resulting in Scotland re-joining the EU. If we remain, again, you're a happy man.

In response to your four points:
Firstly: I dont believe we should allow anyone to wreck this nation
Secondly: No-one did vote for unemployment or food banks. They weren't on the ballot paper, so we couldn't. We voted to LEAVE
Thirdly: You know full well that the ballot was a simple first past the post, based upon a majority of the populace of the UNITED KINGDOM deciding the result.
Fourthly: Neither was remain, but we knew what Remain meant. Leave meant Leave, and did not need defining

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1021 on: 18 December 2018, 09:34:59 pm »
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol

Wow. thats a logic and mindset its just about impossible to argue with, unless you genuinely believe it yourself. I don't, so I wont.

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1022 on: 18 December 2018, 09:48:22 pm »
There's only one thing worse than  a sore loser(mtread) and that's a two time sore loser(VNA)


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2220397058200032&id=914609908711665

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1023 on: 18 December 2018, 10:53:53 pm »
But we're not losers, it ain't over yet :D


And you will be very very upset when you don't get your No Deal Brexit  ;)

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #1024 on: 18 December 2018, 10:55:54 pm »
Quote
Wow. thats a logic and mindset its just about impossible to argue with,
Excellent  :)