Date: 28-03-24  Time: 12:36 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209607 times)

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #950 on: 16 December 2018, 12:21:19 pm »

We probably all agree on this.


On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #951 on: 16 December 2018, 12:33:19 pm »
For different reasons....


You - 2nd referendum
Us - No Deal


 :)

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #952 on: 16 December 2018, 12:51:28 pm »
Quote
On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.
On the plus side, a million or so folks will get to keep their jobs :)

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #953 on: 16 December 2018, 04:17:54 pm »

Quote
On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.
On the plus side, a million or so folks will get to keep their jobs :)


Do we really employ THAT many people in Brussels?!! :eek

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #954 on: 16 December 2018, 04:23:33 pm »

For different reasons....


You - 2nd referendum
Us - No Deal


 :)


Yep. That's about the size of it.


I reckon that twister S.James sold us this Brexit. Typical. Probably spent about 1s/9d on it :rolleyes

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #955 on: 16 December 2018, 04:40:07 pm »
Saw this posted on FB by another Foccer, makes sense to me.
I also read somewhere that Britain coming out of the EU would be the equivalent of 9 or 11 medium sized countries leaving at the same time.
It's a disaster for the EU, they're just playing hard ball and it's time we did.



Finally some sense  Offering the obvious and what should be  final solution
 and it apparently comes from down under


Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.


Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.


The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.


But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?


A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.


Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.


Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.


Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.


Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.


Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).


UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.


As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
« Last Edit: 16 December 2018, 04:50:45 pm by dazza »

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #956 on: 16 December 2018, 06:08:10 pm »
Quote
Saw this posted on FB by another Foccer, makes sense to me.
I also read somewhere that Britain coming out of the EU would be the equivalent of 9 or 11 medium sized countries leaving at the same time.
It's a disaster for the EU, they're just playing hard ball and it's time we did.



Finally some sense  Offering the obvious and what should be  final solution
 and it apparently comes from down under


Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.


Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.


The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.


But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?


A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.


Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.


Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.


Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.


Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.


Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).


UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.


As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015   « Last Edit: Today at 04:50:45 PM »

Not again. :rolleyes

Anyway, we all know NO DEAL is not an option.  Ain't gonna happen.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #957 on: 16 December 2018, 06:41:01 pm »
I think your throttle response is a bit slow there dazza. Pretty sure hedgetrimmer's already posted that, or most of it, in this thread.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #958 on: 16 December 2018, 06:48:30 pm »

agricola

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #959 on: 16 December 2018, 07:20:46 pm »
Ive not seen that before. But I'll drink to it. Well said that man, there is no such thing as "No Deal". Isnt that what some of us have been saying here?

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #960 on: 16 December 2018, 07:56:53 pm »
Dazza déjà vu :lol


Oh and Tony Abbott is still an arse  ;)
« Last Edit: 16 December 2018, 07:58:23 pm by mtread »

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #961 on: 16 December 2018, 08:19:17 pm »
I think your throttle response is a bit slow there dazza. Pretty sure hedgetrimmer's already posted that, or most of it, in this thread.
Yes I know, but I thought if VNA can keep asking the same question over and over again and ignoring what has already been answered previously then we should start posting the same things over and over again.  :D
Plus, there are some people who probably haven't seen it because this thread has become so long, not everyone has read everything ( or can remember ......VNA  :pokefun [size=78%])[/size] :lol

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #962 on: 16 December 2018, 08:28:48 pm »
Yes it's all getting a bit 'samey'  :rollin

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #963 on: 17 December 2018, 02:39:18 am »

Sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking that the referendum was yet to take place.


People keep going over and over the same pre-referendum arguments. Leave won. There's no need to keep on making the case for it. That part is over.


The bit I'd be most concerned about right now is the attempts being made by the Remaniacs to reverse it.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #964 on: 17 December 2018, 09:45:45 am »
Latest talk in the papers is for trying to get a consensus in Parliament for a Norway type deal. Which is of course 'Leave' but remaining in the Customs Union, Single Market and Free Movement. But it's a 'Leave' and therefore 'what the people voted for' :)


Still too much about solving the problems within the Tory party, rather than doing what's best for the country (whatever that is).

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #965 on: 17 December 2018, 09:56:43 am »
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
Still unsure how tyrannical and undemocratic it is and how we'll be better off out.
This is an interesting outlook on things.







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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #966 on: 17 December 2018, 10:06:52 am »

If Brexit gets overturned and we end up staying in The EU this issue is going to go on for eternity, except it'll be intensified by a multiple of about one hundred.


Does anyone seriously think that over 17 million people who have been diddled out of Brexit are just going to shrug their shoulders and accept that without complaint?. The Remainers must be stark, staring bonkers if they think that's going to happen.




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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #967 on: 17 December 2018, 10:18:48 am »
Quote
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
They are not protesting against the EU.  They are protesting against their governments.
Which is what we should have done.  What we are doing is trying to blame the EU for the action of sucessive UK governments.
Though we may well see civil unrest if the UK leaves the EU in a NO DEAL scenario.  That is perhaps when finally those who voted to LEAVE will understand that once again they have been conned.


mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #968 on: 17 December 2018, 10:34:43 am »
As I said above 'Leave' but closely aligned.


If people think we are heading for a 'No Deal' version of Leave, they must be stark raving bonkers.


mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #969 on: 17 December 2018, 10:43:23 am »
Quote
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
The 'people in Brussels' were demonstrating against the Belgian government's adoption of a UN resolution, nothing to do with the EU. But it's always easy to blame them for everything isn't it?
Also there was a counter demonstration. This country is just as split, and I wouldn't fancy the chances of a load of old blokes against the youth of today  :lol

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #970 on: 17 December 2018, 11:05:59 am »

Funny how the solution to the split in this country always seems to come back to overturning Brexit and remaining in The EU :rolleyes


Remain don't give a fig about 'healing' any split. They just want to reverse democracy at any cost and then rub the Leavers noses right in it.


Like I said previously, they'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #971 on: 17 December 2018, 11:17:46 am »
Nor do Leave if they don't support a Norway style Leave.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #972 on: 17 December 2018, 01:29:52 pm »

Don't remember voting for anything to do with Norway. That sounds like yet another Remainiac ruse to try to thwart democracy to me :rolleyes


When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #973 on: 17 December 2018, 01:34:07 pm »
The 'people in Brussels' were demonstrating against the Belgian government's adoption of a UN resolution 
The unnamed "UN resolution"
Is ---The Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration which was signed by leaders from a 164 countries in Marrakech. A number of European states, including Austria, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia, refused to formally adopt the pact, which is meant to streamline and smooth international mass migration..


« Last Edit: 17 December 2018, 01:35:13 pm by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

dazza

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #974 on: 17 December 2018, 01:36:43 pm »
Quote
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
They are not protesting against the EU.  They are protesting against their governments.
Which is what we should have done.  What we are doing is trying to blame the EU for the action of sucessive UK governments.
Though we may well see civil unrest if the UK leaves the EU in a NO DEAL scenario.  That is perhaps when finally those who voted to LEAVE will understand that once again they have been conned.


Hahaha....The French, Germans and Belgains....They are the EU....You're not grasping this are you




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