Author Topic: 143bhp (Read 4012 times)

Decoke Dave · « **on:** 25 October 2018, 11:08:37 pm »

I have seen it mentioned on here that the 143 bhp that Yamaha states for a standard Gen 1 power output is bollocks! If so what would you expect a totally standard low mileage machine to produce.. I am a 55 year old git and ex 2-stroke nut to my shame

, more than happy (ecstatic) with the bike, owned one year, cannot understand why I never bought one donkeys years ago. P.S. There are less than 200 employees where I work and no less than four Gen 1 1000 owners, including me, and a 600 Boxeye owner. All of the Gen 1 owners have no intention of parting with them!

coffee · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 October 2018, 11:44:57 pm »

I wouldn't have thought you'd be getting much more than 100bhp at the rear wheel,and a genuine 100bhp is more than enough on the road don't you think?

dazza · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 October 2018, 12:04:21 am »

Standard I would say mid 120's to the rear wheel.
A little bit of Ivans magic and you'll be pushing mid to high 130's.
So, I would say that the claimed power output was pretty spot on.
Of course, you have to take into consideration the difference between crank and rear wheel figures.

PieEater · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 October 2018, 07:50:09 am »

I don't know if they still do it but manufacturers always used to quote max BHP figures taken from the crank rather than the rear wheel which is most likely where the 143 BHP figure comes from. The rule of thumb is that you get about 15% power loss from the drivetrain between the crank and the rear wheel so from 143 at the crank you would expect around 121.5 at the wheel. Hence if you check Ivan's Dyno Charts you'll see that his benchmark bike at stock made 121.7.

As dazza says with an Ivan's kit you can expect mid 130's or higher if you invest in (if you can find one) a top quality replacement exhaust system.

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 October 2018, 09:47:11 am »

Quote from: coffee on 25 October 2018, 11:44:57 pm

I wouldn't have thought you'd be getting much more than 100bhp at the rear wheel,and a genuine 100bhp is more than enough on the road don't you think?

No, I think mid to high 130s at the rear wheel is about the right amount

ogri48 · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 October 2018, 09:47:33 am »

im just debating whether to get the last (apparently) ivans kit on ebay. Am I happy with my stock bike? absolutely. Have I got a decent workshop with light and power to have a day doing it in the winter? No. Ive got a horrible dark cold steel container. Have I got the spare dosh for the kit? Absolutely not, i'm not working full time. Do I need it? probably not, I'm fifty eight fercrissake..But still.....

Dynspud · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 October 2018, 11:51:27 am »

...... you only live once

ogri48 · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 October 2018, 12:28:49 pm »

dave, it was that advice made me spunk 280 quid I cant afford for a vintage dainese (Harley Racer Scott Parker no 11) jacket ive been after since 1997 lol, so i'm not listening!!!
mind you its bloody lovely, and they do so rarely come up in my size (58 euro) though even then its a little snug lol so summer use only

Dynspud · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 October 2018, 01:21:56 pm »

That jacket was a bargain mate.
It'll never go down in value and does look superb.
I'm sure it'll start many conversations next spring & summer.

VNA - BMW Wank · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 October 2018, 06:42:54 pm »

Quote

im just debating whether to get the last (apparently) ivans kit on ebay. Am I happy with my stock bike? absolutely. Have I got a decent workshop with light and power to have a day doing it in the winter? No. Ive got a horrible dark cold steel container. Have I got the spare dosh for the kit? Absolutely not, i'm not working full time. Do I need it? probably not, I'm fifty eight fercrissake..But still.....

Presumably more will be available? If not buy it. Buy it now! I have the slip on can jet kit which was fitted by Mike. Basically it gives you a nice big lump of low down grunt that isn’t there on the standard bike, and it gets rid of the horrible surging that plagues the thou at low speed with a small throttle opening (think 30mph in 6^th through towns). Oh plus 10bhpish up top. But forget the extra grunt and power (which is nice) it's that it smooths everything out that is the nicest bit.

Quote

I have seen it mentioned on here that the 143 bhp that Yamaha states for a standard Gen 1 power output is bollocks!

I think it’s probably stop on, and as others have stated dyno runs have also suggested it is about right.

The four best mods from standard you can do (in my humble opinion), are Ivans jet kit, straight through can (the right length please), AIS removal and aftermarket rear shock.

robbo · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 October 2018, 07:14:30 pm »

Ogri48,
Get it done fercrissakes, I was sixty nine when Mike did mine

.[size=78%] [/size]

ogri48 · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 October 2018, 07:23:18 pm »

you rotten buggers have just cost me 120 quid!! call yourself mates...

like VNA sez, it makes sense I guess, ive got the modded rear shock, ais removed and decent Ti can, may as well complete the set

cheers guys lol
Dave I aint gonna have much to spend at the show mate...

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 October 2018, 08:02:06 pm »

Quote from: ogri48 on 26 October 2018, 07:23:18 pm

you rotten buggers have just cost me 120 quid!! call yourself mates...
like VNA sez, it makes sense I guess, ive got the modded rear shock, ais removed and decent Ti can, may as well complete the set

R1 forks next then?

It surprised me how much more they improved handling, especially with the K-Tech treatment...ok, so that's two more things for the complete set

Dynspud · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 October 2018, 08:06:53 pm »

I was thinking of doing the AIS removal and Ivans mod kit as well.

I've already got a good aftermarket (Beowulf) end can fitted so really should do them both.
It's just a bit scary committing to doing it.
I have no doubt that I could do the work - just take my time and follow the instructions properly - there's really good stuff available from this site for doing it all.

I think I'll have a couple of beers and talk myself into it

ogri48 · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 October 2018, 09:40:23 pm »

R1 forks next year perhaps mate, depending on the cost. the bike is already way better than I am mind..

I'll be doing my ivans over Christmas dave, (along with some jobs on me cb13)when I got the use of a decent workshop for a week, we can swap bikes afterwards so you can see if its summat you wanna do to yours. My bike does fuel perfectly as is, im kinda afraid of upsetting that. But you hear such good stuff about the ivans, I gotta at least try it I guess. The ais mod does make changing the plugs sooooo much easier..

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 October 2018, 05:10:00 am »

I find it hard to believe that you've bought the last ever Ivan's kit for the Fazer 1000, mate.

If anyone going the DIY route wants to check any part of the process with me, I'm only a PM away.

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 October 2018, 09:41:15 am »

Quote from: ogri48 on 27 October 2018, 09:40:23 pm

R1 forks next year perhaps mate, depending on the cost. the bike is already way better than I am mind..

There'll always be someone who could ride my bike better than I can

I ended up wanting the Ivan's thing done because, like you, I'd heard so many good things about it. They turned out to be true.
I then got the R6 shock done, as it was obvious that standard shocks were pants (and tired by this time on most examples), and it definitely wanted the handling tidying to cope with the extra the Ivan's mod gave it.
Then I started to find (real or imagined) that being able to push harder showed up some weakness at the front end, which I'd never before found. Put it off for a while due to financial constraints, but got Luke to do the R1 fork conversion when he had this modified pair in and money was available. My God, what a transformation. Combined with the Ivan's and rear shock, I now can't fault this bike, suits me perfectly, better than any has done before, and I've been through a few different bikes in my time. I never want to sell this one though.

bludclot · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 October 2018, 09:44:30 am »

Regarding power figures - manufacturers will take maybe 10 or so engines from their production line and test them for power made at the crank and choose the highest as their quote, maybe even specially build one or two ensuring that each and every tolerance is just so... The showroom machine is unlikely to be quite as good...

ogri48 · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 October 2018, 10:18:09 am »

Quote from: Hedgetrimmer on 28 October 2018, 09:41:15 am

Quote from: ogri48 on 27 October 2018, 09:40:23 pm

R1 forks next year perhaps mate, depending on the cost. the bike is already way better than I am mind..

There'll always be someone who could ride my bike better than I can
I ended up wanting the Ivan's thing done because, like you, I'd heard so many good things about it. They turned out to be true.
I then got the R6 shock done, as it was obvious that standard shocks were pants (and tired by this time on most examples), and it definitely wanted the handling tidying to cope with the extra the Ivan's mod gave it.
Then I started to find (real or imagined) that being able to push harder showed up some weakness at the front end, which I'd never before found. Put it off for a while due to financial constraints, but got Luke to do the R1 fork conversion when he had this modified pair in and money was available. My God, what a transformation. Combined with the Ivan's and rear shock, I now can't fault this bike, suits me perfectly, better than any has done before, and I've been through a few different bikes in my time. I never want to sell this one though.

I know weve talked about this before, its definitely something im seriously considering. The plan was when I finished uni (next spring) to sell my current fazer (its in excellent condition but will have nearly 40k up by then) and get a low miles gen one to spend the money on to get it to summat like yours for spec. As time goes on though, im thinking why shouldn't I do it to my current bike? if I look after it and keep using decent oil for changes theres no reason it shouldn't live as long as I do (and longer lol), I mean realistically im 58, if I ride til im 78 (optimistic) that's only expecting another twenty years out of it. the engines are good for 100k plus im guessing...may as well carry on with it.
I was looking at it the other day..you think " yeah its had a few mods" then you realise "actually its had shitloads", so why change and state again with an unknown quantity, albeit it a lower miles one. I know the motor is good in mine, it doesn't burn oil (my old genesis thou did from new)and ive kept on top of keeping everything tickety boo running it through winter, via copious amounts of wd40, fs365 and the expensive one I cant remember the name of lol. age huh..
Whats a ball park figure on luke doing the conversion bud, assuming he can source and supply a front end?

Hedgetrimmer · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 October 2018, 12:08:53 pm »

Quote from: ogri48 on 28 October 2018, 10:18:09 am

Whats a ball park figure on luke doing the conversion bud, assuming he can source and supply a front end?

That's tricky to say

Luke sourced these forks from eBay - I think they went for about £250 with the K-Tech mods already done, but perhaps he can confirm that. He sourced all the other parts too, and had the stem fitted to whatever bottom yoke it is; top yoke is from a Fazer 8 I think. He also found a decent front 'guard and ordered in the correct length brake lines. Add on the ride height adjusters, as I wanted to keep the riding position standard...

Basically, I just threw whatever Luke needed money-wise at him and asked that he sort it all out cos I'm a lazy bugger and he's kind and helpful like that

Added to which, he then swapped everything over to the bike I have now when I crashed the last one, but that deal is another story...

Just one thing I'd add; I did it because after 4 of these bikes on the trot, for various reasons, I'd come to the conclusion that the gen 1 thou is the right bike for me. Never felt that way about any other bike. By the time I decided to start down the road of all the mods, I felt I had a good idea of its potential, and it had plenty of good points to begin with, so I thought this was a bike that was worth it. So I also thought, if I'm going to do any mods, I might as well do all the ones that I thought would really finish the bike.

My last one (remember the yellow one with speed blocks?) wasn't the right one for me - although I loved that (Dream Machine) paint job, I really wanted a late one with the black engine and frame. So throwing the yellow one in a Welsh hedge was actually a positive thing in the end

So what I think I'm trying to say is, it was right for me to spend the money; I couldn't say if it would be the right thing for you to do the same. But I can say mine is now the best gen 1 thou I've ever ridden, and it's bloody good

Actually, I'll add one more thing...
All these mods are proven on these bikes. None of them lose you anything, all of them improve the bike. In my experience, you're not taking any risks if done properly. I hope you are going for the Full Monty Ivans - to me, it wasn't worth doing the slip-on one. I control how much I want to use, and it doesn't make the bike any more of a challenge to ride unless you want it to by winding open the throttle. I rarely cane it, it never sees the red line, but it is a whole bunch of fun, and a pussycat when I'm not in the mood for warp speed. But if I am...

ogri48 · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 October 2018, 08:11:13 pm »

lol cheers mate, appreciate that. I'll wait til im flush (one day huh) or sell one of the others and get in touch with the feller..

robbo · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 October 2018, 08:17:20 pm »

"if I ride until I'm 78 (optimistically)"......bollox that means I've only got 6 years to go. I'd better get my biking bucket list sorted and fast. I'm deffo having an Ivans on my zimmer with a 50mm jack up.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 October 2018, 08:20:19 am »

Just to confirm that Ivan's jet kits are still available direct from his sole UK/European distributor, Stephen at SG Motorsport.

https://www.sgmotorsport.biz/product-category/ivans-jet-kits/ivans-yamaha-jet-kits/

If you want the Full Monty MB jet kit, make sure you contact Stephen direct to ensure he supplies what you need.

Mike

ogri48 · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 October 2018, 11:45:59 am »

I went for the slip on kit fellers, I honestly don't need the full monty.
seems quite a bit to do (altering float levels etc) ill be downloading every bloody bit of info available afore I tackle it lol..

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #24 on:** 31 October 2018, 09:04:36 pm »

It's more than just swapping out jets and needles but don't be tempted to omit any of the stage of the process.

I would advise you to just enlarge one of the pilot circuit bypass holes - the middle one of the three - and set the mixture screws at 4 1/4 - 4 1/2 turns out.

While you have the carbs out, I also recommend that you replace the O-rings on the float needle valve seats. These harden and start to leak as they get older, and most are old enough to be at that stage now. Do it while you have the carbs on the bench and save having to pull them again any time soon.