Date: 28-03-24  Time: 20:14 pm

Author Topic: Plastic waste in seas/oceans  (Read 5515 times)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #25 on: 08 October 2018, 01:12:28 pm »
 
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For fear of being accused of racism and causing offence.
Absolute nonsense.  What evidence do you have for this?  And not to mention many businesses, authority’s, idea of waste management is to ship it abroad.
 
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Some plastic packaging IS needed, for instance cucumbers, the plastic sleeve prolongs the life, we thought we were saving the planet when we saw a cucumber without plastic but had to bin it after a few days
My local supermarket – Morrisons – are telling us they are making a big move to cut packaging.  So paper bags have replaced the free wee plastic bags for loose fruit and veg.  But yeah the shrink wrap has vanished from the cucumbers.  I now get my cucumber home and shrink wrap it in plastic so it won’t go off quick in the fridge.  Doh!  Yet they are still selling tomatoes in plastic boxes.  Oh and why when I need a few floury tatties tae make some soup why do I have to buy 2Kg in a plastic bag.  I’ll have some mash to use some of em up, but a good few will get chucked.  Why is all fruit and veg not loose?


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It wont change due to public pressure no politician of any party has ever listened to the great unwashed of this country and carried out their wishes.
I can assure you if enough people apply pressure to their elected representatives they will respond.  It is a democracy.  And democracy is not just about voting once every 5 years.  But yeah, leave em to it and most likely they will do foc all.  They are there to serve us – make em do their job.
 

steve 10562cc

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #26 on: 08 October 2018, 03:55:56 pm »
Trouble is self opinionated people who only see things from their point of view tend to put the backs up of most people.

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #27 on: 08 October 2018, 04:12:13 pm »
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Oh and why when I need a few floury tatties tae make some soup why do I have to buy 2Kg in a plastic bag.  I’ll have some mash to use some of em up, but a good few will get chucked.
We always but a sack of spuds from the local garden centre which comes in a paper sack, £6.50 for 12.5kg and keep it in the shed and it lasts weeks. But you can only get them between October and May. And then its new potatoes - as you say, in plastic bags.     
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VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #28 on: 08 October 2018, 06:23:18 pm »
 There's a weird thing too.  Most of the year I eat new tatties, seeing as these days they are available all year roond (maybe that in itself needs to change).  My supermarket always has loose new tatties.  But I buy em pre-packed cos they are a fraction of the price, and it’s often the same variety from the same region.  Why? 
It’s only when I do something like make soup I need the old ones, and I end up with shit loads of em.
 

dazza

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #29 on: 08 October 2018, 06:57:56 pm »
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For fear of being accused of racism and causing offence.

Absolute nonsense.  What evidence do you have for this?  And not to mention many businesses, authority’s, idea of waste management is to ship it abroad.
 
Quote
Some plastic packaging IS needed, for instance cucumbers, the plastic sleeve prolongs the life, we thought we were saving the planet when we saw a cucumber without plastic but had to bin it after a few days

My local supermarket – Morrisons – are telling us they are making a big move to cut packaging.  So paper bags have replaced the free wee plastic bags for loose fruit and veg.  But yeah the shrink wrap has vanished from the cucumbers.  I now get my cucumber home and shrink wrap it in plastic so it won’t go off quick in the fridge.  Doh!  Yet they are still selling tomatoes in plastic boxes.  Oh and why when I need a few floury tatties tae make some soup why do I have to buy 2Kg in a plastic bag.  I’ll have some mash to use some of em up, but a good few will get chucked.  Why is all fruit and veg not loose?


Quote
It wont change due to public pressure no politician of any party has ever listened to the great unwashed of this country and carried out their wishes.

I can assure you if enough people apply pressure to their elected representatives they will respond.  It is a democracy.  And democracy is not just about voting once every 5 years.  But yeah, leave em to it and most likely they will do foc all.  They are there to serve us – make em do their job.

Every time you do this VNA I think of this  :D

agricola

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #30 on: 08 October 2018, 07:31:20 pm »
and lets try to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees eh. Just enough to melt the ice caps, then we can get at the underground resources.

BBROWN1664

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #31 on: 08 October 2018, 08:31:37 pm »
Where I live, the waste collection is becoming a joke.
We get one large (only becasue I complained about the small) recycling bin that is collected once a fortnight. On black bag bin that is emtied weekly and a garden waste bin that if they detect you have been putting kitchen waste (like potatoe peelings) they refuse to empty.
We fill our recycling bin in under two weeks meaning that we actually end up putting stuff in teh black bag bin that we could recycle. I dont want bags and boxes lying around the place so in the bin it goes.
The garden waste bin is now emptied 50 weeks of the year but only every other week meaning I still ahve a sizable pile of garden waste in teh garden I cant get rid of. I cant get rid of it because our local council have deemed vans and trailers to be the spawn of the earth and wont allow them in teh local tip without paying for the priveledge. On top of this, they now close at 4:30pm dueing the week having not opened until 9am (and never on a Thursday) so I cannot get there before/after work and at the weekend, the queue goes way back down the road blocking off the local retail park. You can sit in teh queue, gradually creeping forwards, for 45 minutes for the privieldge of self sorting your rubbish into specific piles.

I dont mind recycling, reusing etc but the problem is not in this country really. The problem you have all seen on the tv is places like india, mexico, etc where the poeple just dont give a foc and their governments dont either. To them, they think very little of dropping another plastic back in teh street or tipping the contents of their engine oil in the local stream becasue thats the way its done there.

We can go as green as we want in this continent, but when the USA, China and the third world are not helping, even if we stopped using plastic and fosil fuel tonight, the problem would still be there and will remain there until the other parts of the world start to do something.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #32 on: 08 October 2018, 10:48:04 pm »
Agree with much of what you say BBROWN1664.

But at the same time we have a policy of dumping our waste on third world and developing countries.  Though some of these countries are now rightly refusing to take our waste.

And of course the biggest part of our recycling bin problem is we have so much darn pointless packaging to stick in there in the first place.

Totally agree it's a global problem.  As for the USA, well Trump is in complete denial of all enviromental issues.  Plus he's renaging on international agreement after agreement.  Trump is a problem for us all.

I would argue, by the way, that China is actually one country that is now, and to some degree has already in the past, taken global warming more seriously than most other countries, and it's now moving to more robustly tackle waste.  China may be a big polluter as a country, by on a single person basis they are one of the least polluting countries in the world.

But regardless of what other countries do, we need to clean up our act.  Cos if nothing else, leading the way on emmisions, plastic use, recycling and waste means we'll have the technology and expertise to sell to other countries when sooner or later they will be screaming out for solutions to a mounting problem.  It's a win win, if we can get it right (big if)

Slaninar

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #33 on: 09 October 2018, 04:51:13 am »
My thoughts on this, correct me if I'm missing something.

Ironic/"funny" part: beavers build dams, humans make plastic. Planet loves plastic, we're a part of the planet.  :)  We've been here for a relatively very short time and not that anyone would miss us if we pollute ourselves to death.

Bit more serious: more humans, more polution. Limiting a number of new borns worldwide would get us within a manageable number of people, with more than enough resources and less pollution.

Seriously: We've had a company VW Golf 2 diesel. It ran for over 20 years! As a company car. Used very little fuel. I wonder if that's less eco than modern cars that have filters, but use the same amount of fuel per 100 kms, if not more, due to engine being suffocated with all the exhaust filters. How much pollution does making a new car do? Golf 2 can last for 20-30 years, while modern cars are "phased out" after 5 years, with strong government incentives for new, "eco" cars... Plus Golf 2 runs on filtered, used food frying oil.  :)

Same goes for most other products - capitalism, with consumerism, leads to pollution. People are encouraged to buy more often, new stuff, discouraged from repairing the old. New stuff is designed so it doesn't last long AND so it's expensive to repair. Plus, you have a "free market" with 1000 different variants of the same thing - instead of choosing a most durable, easyest and cleanest to produce models, of high quality, making them in large series.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #34 on: 09 October 2018, 09:30:12 am »
:agree

The so called old and "dirty" cars tend to be cleaner than new ones when you look at the cradle to grave emmisions for the reasons you have given. the effort/emmisions involved in building them has increased and the effort/cost/emisions to scrap the car has increased. Add in the shorter lifespan of some of these cars now and whilst they may emit less particles per km or whatever, they are not as green as the carrot munchers would like you to believe.
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VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #35 on: 09 October 2018, 11:49:13 am »
 
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The so called old and "dirty" cars tend to be cleaner than new ones when you look at the cradle to grave emmisions for the reasons you have given.
Except the older diesel ones, they visibly spew out diesel particles and soot.  Arguably they need to taken off the road.  But then, the current answer - congestion charges or bans for older diesels - is pretty much directly targeting those who can least afford.  It’s not clever and it’s not right. 



But yeah I ran my last car for over 10 years.  2.0ltr petrol Bora.  Got a Euro 6 diesel now.  I’d say it’s well built and should last even longer than my Bora, but the problem may be if you have a car that suffers ‘technical’ problems, as it gets harder to diagnose and fix some issues.  So far it's run for almost 3 years faultlessly (fingers crossed)


I do think we will see increasing numbers of electric cars on the roads over the next few years.  Still a bit limited in choice, pricey for what you get and the killer for me is range just now.  But for a lot of folks they are going to start ticking boxes.  Exepct them to become a common sight.



Quote
Bit more serious: more humans, more polution. Limiting a number of new borns worldwide would get us within a manageable number of people, with more than enough resources and less pollution.
Population, the big white elephant in the room.  It is though the number one issue.
 

Slaninar

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #36 on: 09 October 2018, 01:12:56 pm »
Electric cars can help an overpopulated city have a bit less pollution, but the planet as a whole - not so much, if not worse IMO.

My country now gives incentive for "renewable" power sources. So people with money put dams on small, beautiful mountain rivers, and make small power plants. This destroys the mountain rivers/streams, kills all the fast water inhabiting fish (trout I think is the English name). Even affects the surrounding forrests.

Similar thing happens with wind-turbines - haven't seen it for myself, but was told they tend to decimate flocks of birds, who don't see the fins. They even make them with some whistles, to allow birds to notice them, but then you have noise pollution.

Solar panels - they take a lot of room, and have a limited life span - not sure how eco-friendly their production is.

Coal - no need to even explain that.

Nuclear power plants - these seem like the most eco friendly, in terms of pollution per MW produced. As long as there are no disasters and the waste is stored safely and properly.


All those sources are either time, or/and resource limited. Electricity is produced, then converted to charge batteries. Then converted again to run an electric car engine from the batteries. With losses at each transformation (smaller, or larger). OK, when the electric car is run in a busy street it doesn't pollute then and there. It did use pollution to charge the batteries, but that came from hundreds of miles away. It will affect the ecosystem and the climate, probably, but the busy city street will be a bit cleaner, more "eco".

Batteries need to be replaced from time to time, even the rechargeable ones don't last forever. This also creates some waste, and takes effort to re-use what can be re-used, so there's a bit less waste. But there is waste.


Banning private cars, with good quality public transport and bicycle infrastructure are a sensible, long term option. For several reasons. Same, unfortunately, goes for motorcycles as well. Though we needn't fear, common sense is dead and buried. I would expect my son to get to see cars/motorcycles run by humans outlawed, for "safety concerns" though.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

BBROWN1664

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #37 on: 09 October 2018, 01:32:59 pm »
Quote
The so called old and "dirty" cars tend to be cleaner than new ones when you look at the cradle to grave emmisions for the reasons you have given.
Except the older diesel ones, they visibly spew out diesel particles and soot. 


You will probably find the cradle to grave emmisions for these is still lower than your new Euro 6 diesel
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slappy

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #38 on: 09 October 2018, 05:14:34 pm »
The big problem with any electrical vehicle is you have to charge the batteries using electricity. If everybody in the future is running an electric vehicle how much power has to be generated to just to charge all those batteries?
To be green it all has to be done using renewable power supplies, so massive wind farms and solar panel farms etc have to be built, where are they going to build them?  Sticking a few solar panels and a little wind turbine on your garage is not going to do it!
Has there been any studies done into how much power a country like the UK would have to generate if every vehicle was replaced by an electric one?
The grid just about manages to cope when the adverts come on during Coronation Street and everybody sticks the kettle on :)

tommyardin

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #39 on: 09 October 2018, 07:08:05 pm »
FFS Pass me another bullet Betty  :eek   :2guns :car

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #40 on: 09 October 2018, 07:23:07 pm »
Moving on to electric cars doesn't solve anything... just passes the buck. They may not need fossil fuels but the rare earth metals used in the batteries are just another finite resource that will be mined to death until we 'realise' they're running out and will have to move onto the next thing.
Not to mention how much pollution is causeed in the mining and creation of these batteries. I'm sure I watched a documentary on it at some point that stated it was more damaging to the environment creating a single electric car than a normal car would cause in its whole lifetime

I personally say the future in in hydrogen atoms but as far as I've read the tech just can't get off the ground. There are a few companies than have done it successfully and can run cars on water with nothing but harmless vapour coming out the tail pipes..... but the big oil companies are bulldozing anyone that tries to make it into a commercial enterprise

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #41 on: 09 October 2018, 08:05:29 pm »
 Wind turbines will never kill anything like the number of birds say killed by cats each year, or killed on the roads, or pesticides etc etc.  Birds are also generally smart enough to avoid wind turbines.  Not saying there are no birds killed by wind turbines – but in the real world it just simple is not an issue.  I’m not aware of noise pollution issues relating to wind turbines, sure it’s talked about but it’s bull shit.


But anyway, conventional power station is about 40% efficient with a 15-20% transmission loss.  They are crap.  However, crap as they are, charging an electric (electric motors are extremely efficient) car from this energy source is still more efficient than some even more crappier in energy efficient terms – and that’s the cars and motorcycles we are running about in/on.  The internal combustion engine needs to become a thing of the past – it will become dinosaur technology.


Nuclear Power?  Have they sorted out the waste issues at Sellafield yet?  You know the stuff from the first generation of reactors.  Umm no.  It’s like getting power now and pay later. 



Look it doesn’t matter which way you look at it – all energy at some point in the relatively near future has to become renewable. 



Don’t forget that we only have one source of energy at the end of the day and that’s the sun. 



Wind turbines have evolved to become proven cheap technology.  Solar and battery technology is going through that process.  The next leap forward for battery technology should be graphene.  Some folks reckon commercial graphene batteries are just a few years away. It will also solve the range issue.



Slappy has a point. 



Quote
To be green it all has to be done using renewable power supplies, so massive wind farms and solar panel farms etc have to be built, where are they going to build them?  Sticking a few solar panels and a little wind turbine on your garage is not going to do it!


Tidal and wave power too.  All over the fucking place.  We need more hydro schemes and big batteries (graphene again)  to try and store energy.


We need more electricity, but we need energy efficiency just as much.  We all live in energy inefficient houses leading our energy inefficient lives. 



But yeah right now today.  A family wanting a second car?  Lots of people, I think, are going to go electric for the second car.

 
And if nothing happens, if there is no change.  Well forget saving the planet, it’ll be fine, but there will be no more human race.
 
 

fazersharp

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #42 on: 09 October 2018, 08:35:00 pm »
Zero point energy
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

agricola

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #43 on: 10 October 2018, 11:14:01 am »
Energy sources are all in the control of companies that run for making profit, from generation to end use. Planning for the future is not going to happen while this remains the case. Same with the water industry. Unaccountable to anyone. National planning is required.

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #44 on: 10 October 2018, 04:05:32 pm »
Agree.
Privatisation was a big mistake.

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #45 on: 10 October 2018, 06:26:53 pm »
I think one factor being missed, is that 'ownership' of vehicles, as we know it, will dissappear. The 'Car Club' principle, together with driverless vehicles, will change things dramatically. You want to go somewhere, and you whistle up a driverless electric taxi. Whether it's just to go shopping, or on holiday, it'll drop you off and pick you up. It'll be a sad day for motorcycling. We might be the last generation to own and ride bikes.

agricola

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #46 on: 10 October 2018, 07:25:02 pm »
I think one factor being missed, is that 'ownership' of vehicles, as we know it, will dissappear. The 'Car Club' principle, together with driverless vehicles, will change things dramatically. You want to go somewhere, and you whistle up a driverless electric taxi. Whether it's just to go shopping, or on holiday, it'll drop you off and pick you up. It'll be a sad day for motorcycling. We might be the last generation to own and ride bikes.


Unlikely. History has shown thus far that govts will use economic measures to change habits: i.e. taxation. Zones which you will have to pay to enter/use/drive through. Local taxation schemes to fund alternative transport infrastructure etc etc. Some areas already have theses schemes, others are sure to follow. They still want us to use the private motor car because it raises massive revenue, as does the oil industry which still wants us to burn fossil fuel, hence melting the ice caps to get at the reserves

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #47 on: 10 October 2018, 10:17:44 pm »
Governments will tax whatever is being used. Tax on oil will be replaced by tax on mileage, electricity or whatever. The motorcar replaced the horse and cart in less than 20 years.

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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #48 on: 11 October 2018, 12:42:39 am »
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They still want us to use the private motor car because it raises massive revenue,
You'll be paying a subscription to have a car available.  As Mtread says anything can be taxed.  Or not taxed.





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Re: Plastic waste in seas/oceans
« Reply #49 on: 11 October 2018, 07:16:48 am »

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For fear of being accused of racism and causing offence.
Absolute nonsense.  What evidence do you have for this?


The lack of evidence is the proof. No one dares to say anything.