Test rides

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 Took the old bike for it’s MOT today.  Passed nae bother.


While it was being MOTed I wandered doon tae the Honda dealer a few streets away.  The new CB1000R looks smashing.  They had a demo model too.


So after my MOT, I thought I’d have a sniff around another dealer or two.  Wandered into the new Triumph dealer just outside Glasgow (no signs of austerity here - focs sake!).  I’m taken with the street triple rs.  I mean it looks good, it’s seriously light, I mean seriously light, the riding position seems easy going enough and the figures suggest it should have plenty of poke.  One wonders if this bike is trying to make litre and litre plus nakeds redundant.


Anyway sales person came over.  Next thing I know he’s offering me a test ride, but he needed my NI number as well as my license apparently – so was no go today.  Seeing as I almost ended up on a test ride I thought I’d ask about the insurance position.  He said we check your license, if it’s valid and you’ve been riding over a year, you got a valid NI number, then off you go insured by us.  OK says I, what about the excess – noting this information wasn’t automatically offered – 2 grand he says.  2 foccing grand! Foc me.


So just wondering – is that typical.  What’s the going rate?


Anyway bikes I’m drooling over, and in order of preference;
CB1000R
Street Triple RS  (though comes with silly track day tyres)
MT10
 

[fazersharp]

Passed nae bother.
 I wandered doon tae the Honda dealer

Have you got a Scottish keyboard 
Yes I had the same experience over a street tripple actually not as high excess but enough to send me walking, I don't get it -- no car dealer has ever asked me for my credit card number to cover the excess on a test drive.     
I would happily pay £5 -£10 or even £15 to buy an insurance to cover their excess so I could test ride, maybe even £25 so long as it was refunded if I brought a bike.With £2k hanging over me I am not going to be giving it a proper  test ride   

[Hugh Mungus]

I have heard of this recently. The £2,000 excess has been around for a while but no salesman seems to mention it unless you ask.


With your license and NI number they can go onto the DVLA website and log in to fully check your license.
That method is a bit naughty of them as the way it is supposed to work is that you log in and get the dealer a temporary code so they can view those details. The code is only valid for a few days. If you give them full access to your license account they will have the power to make alterations and god knows what else. If those details fall into the wrong hands it might very well end up costing you big time.


Data Protection and all that - It boils down to "Don't trust anyone."

[fazersharp]

Didn't have the NI number thing but when I rang I asked "what do I need to bring" and all they said was "your diving licence" then it turns out I also need my credit card to swipe to cover the excess cost in the event of an off. If it weren't for that, a street tipple forum would be having the pleasure of my posts cause I may well of brought one.   

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 Fazersharp - there was no mention of reserving cash on my credit card. To be honest I wouldn't be too keen on that.


Shit happens, and obviously they are likely to have an excess on their insurance.  It actually makes sense to have a steep excess, but two grand! 



Now if things did go pear shaped, I think it’s only fair that their excess is covered, but if it’s a light spill it’s reasonable to agree the repair bill.  If they have reserved the dosh then they can help themselves to whatever they want up to 2 grand in the event of a miss-hap.

With your license and NI number they can go onto the DVLA website and log in to fully check your license.


That method is a bit naughty of them

That’s a very good point Hugh, and thanks for pointing that out.  I’ll be providing a code for any test rides.  Cheers.


Been toying with the idea of a new bike for a couple of years now, but not yet done anything about it.  And of course, my gen1 thou is still delivering the goods.


So is the 2 grand excess just a Triumph thing, or is this the standard? 
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 Another wee thing about the street triple RS.  Well it comes with those track day tyres.  Weirdly the weather has been perfect for them since the second week in May with just the exception a few days here and there.  But this ain’t our usual summer.  And anyway I want a tyre that will grip no matter what the weather.



When I asked if I could swap the silly tyres for something more sensible should I purchase I was told they would happily sell me a replacement pair and I could sell my unused track day tyres myself.  He talked some nonsense about tyre traceability, and that they are not allowed to sell them.
 

[fazersharp]

The credit card swipe was so that they had guaranteed excess cover from me for when I said I aint payin. Like when you check into a hotel and you might throw the tv out of the window   

[Hugh Mungus]

They don't seem to want to sell you a bike very much VNA.
My son recently bought a 14 plate MT-09 from a dealer in Peterborough. He had a test ride, no mention of a £2,000 excess, certainly wasn't asked to provide credit card details. We whinged about the rear tyre being well worn and he knocked £100 off the price, he got two months riding out of that tyre before it was changed and the £100 covered the cost of a new one.
I saw a GSXR that was fitted with track day tyres and even though I have no intention of buying one I did think "Those tyres would have to come off."

[celticdog]

So after my MOT, I thought I’d have a sniff around another dealer or two.  Wandered into the new Triumph dealer just outside Glasgow (no signs of austerity here - focs sake!).
 

Hi VNA,where you at Mossland Drive? Triumph, Ducati, Harley Davidson and others all have flagship stores there, along with Audi who're just the other side of the roundabout. Didn't recognise the place the last time I was there. Mind you I left nearly 15 years ago. Anyway a friend of mine was invited to a demo day in Dalkieth BMW, free coffee and bacon rolls with several models to try out. He was a long term customer of theirs. I'm pretty sure most dealers won't offer you a test ride unless they're reasonably confident of a sale.

[fazersharp]

They don't seem to want to sell you a bike very much VNA.
My son recently bought a 14 plate MT-09 from a dealer in Peterborough. He had a test ride, no mention of a £2,000 excess, certainly wasn't asked to provide credit card details.

I think the difference is that MT was a second hand bike that the test ride was on but my experience was a test ride on the new demo bike with a view to buying a new bike, my amount they wanted to cover was £500. Also I was looking at a second hand bike at a triumph dealer with an advertised price but then was told there is an EXTRA £50 admin fee that will be added so the advertised price was a CON.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 The biggest problem with buy a new or newish car or bike is having to deal with dealers.  Foccing snake pits.
 

They don't seem to want to sell you a bike very much VNA.

You are right Hugh, they all seem to make me feel wary, uncomfortable and somehow a bit of a pest.  I mean how dare I suggest that the bikes comes with the wrong tyres for me, and perhaps want them changed. 

My son recently bought a 14 plate MT-09 from a dealer in Peterborough. He had a test ride, no mention of a £2,000 excess, certainly wasn't asked to provide credit card details.

What I do remember from a debacle years ago when I somehow managed to stuff a Honda Hornet demo bike into the side of a car is – that it is your responsibility to ensure that any vehicle you take out on the road is ensured.  So my guess is most folks have no idea of the excess on the dealers policy, or in my case with the hornet that the dealer had not provided me with any third party cover. 



Celticdog, The fancy new place by Hillington.  Is this shit all sold on PCP?  Times are hard I’m told, but never have I seen so many flash bike dealers.  Foc me, they even have a designer café selling proper cappuccinos and paninis.


 

I'm pretty sure most dealers won't offer you a test ride unless they're reasonably confident of a sale.

All three main dealers I visited yesterday offered me a test ride.  Triumph were a little different in that they offered to wheel the bike out there and then.  It’s the way to sell bikes.  And of course, with PCP everybody is a potential new bike buyer!


Which brings me neatly to last years visit to the Yamaha dealer in Kilmarnock.  Had the demo been ready – they were running it in – I might have purchased.  But I quickly detected one problem.  They took me through the deal – PCP – and asked me what I thought.  I replied – not interested – I’ll pay cash thanks, well as long as you can cut me a decent deal.  They were clearly disappointed that they had a customer, for once, that could afford to buy what they were selling. 



Anyway need to decide if I am buying – when I’m buying – and of course what I’m buying.
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Oh BREXIT
Did I mention BREXIT.
When the MT10 came out it was 10 grand, well 9,999 actually, on the road.It's now 11,499  That's a 15% rise in two years.
It also seems to be the wonder of PCP, that prices rise between 10 and 20% in a short period yet sales keep booming. 

[celticdog]

Oh BREXIT
Did I mention BREXIT.
When the MT10 came out it was 10 grand, well 9,999 actually, on the road.It's now 11,499  That's a 15% rise in two years.
It also seems to be the wonder of PCP, that prices rise between 10 and 20% in a short period yet sales keep booming. 

I'll admit I've had to google what the foc PCP is (not the angel dust drug). You're right talk about irresponsible lending, it's a foccin' mess.
It's creating an artificial bubble that's fuelling the price hikes, god preserve us!

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I'll admit I've had to google what the foc PCP is (not the angel dust drug). You're right talk about irresponsible lending, it's a foccin' mess.
It's creating an artificial bubble that's fuelling the price hikes, god preserve us!

 The bit I don’t quite understand is who owns the bike.


I mean in the old days, the dealer bought stock, maybe got some on credit, and then sold the stock to us.  We often financed it, but the dealer still paid for the stock one way or another.


Today, folks pay for the depreciation on the product.  So the dealer can’t be paying for the stock.  So is it a tie up between finance companies and the importer or manufacturer.  But it still leaves me wondering how the units get paid for.  I mean the manufacturer surely still charges per unit.


Seems to be a bit of an endowment situation. 



I don’t think it’s fuelling price hikes, but it sure is a good way of hiding them.  And prices have definitely gone up sharply since…………………    yeah BREXIT 


Oh and get this celticdog, when your bike goes back to the dealer after your 3 year PCP, they sell it again on a used PCP deal.   And still nobody had bought the bike.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

When you take back a vehicle that has been bought on PCP you might find that they value it at a lot less than you'd expect. They knock off value for every scratch etc and even if they think it's mucky.
Yes you are guaranteed that you can take it back and walk away - this is what they want you to do as that is where they are going to make their money.
If you trade in for another bike you will get bamboozled by ending your PCP and taking the new one out - You will lose a lot of money but they will spin it so you think it's a good deal!


I have bought a car on PCP, the salesman was very honest and explained all the pit-falls - no salesman in the other dealerships told the truth... I intend to pay the balance after the 3 years to own it outright which will piss them off no end.


If you trade in for another PCP you will be on finance forever - That is how it all works (for them).

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

I have bought a car on PCP, the salesman was very honest and explained all the pit-falls - no salesman in the other dealerships told the truth... I intend to pay the balance after the 3 years to own it outright which will piss them off no end.

It all depends on the deal.  If you wanna buy or keep the vehicle long term there are usually better options.  On the other hand, well the CB1000R I fancy,


The Honda finance PCP is 6.9% APR.  So I’m not interested.


But if I could get the CB1000R on the finance deal for the CB11000EX APR 0.0%.  I’d sign up for that.  Getting a cash deal is hard work.  http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/street/cb1100-ex/offers/finance-ex.html That unbelievable deal lets me keep more than 50% of the cost of the bike invested elsewhere making money.  Then I either make the final payment or hand it back. 





 

[mtread]

As far as I'm aware, on PCP the dealer still owns the bike/car and you are effectively 'renting' it, with an option to buy at the end of the contract. Or of course just rent another new one. Hopefully it might mean the market is flooded with 2/3 year old bikes and prices drop through the floor for well serviced, spotlessly clean bikes :-)

[steve 10562cc]

There's only ever one winner with any finance how ever it's painted that's those lending the money. What ever they call it PCP, Personal Loan, HP, ETC it's just to part us from our hard earned cash.   

[Hugh Mungus]

PCP's are fine if you understand all the costs and pitfalls.
It can work in your favour - which is why I took my car on a 0% PCP deal instead of HP.
Yes I've got to have about £5,000 ready in two years time and if I haven't got the cash I can always get a loan.


If you want the latest bike and don't mind handing it back after three years I don't think it's too bad a deal. You haven't got the worry of trade in values etc but it will cost you. Then you can get the next 'latest thing' and thrash that for 3 years...

[VNA - BMW Wank]

It can work in your favour - which is why I took my car on a 0% PCP deal instead of HP.

Yup like the deal on the CB1100EX - cannae wack a deal like that.  But I don't want a CB1100EX and it's 6.9% APR on the bike I do want.

As far as I'm aware, on PCP the dealer still owns the bike/car

Can't see it Mtread.  The dealers would go bust right left and centre.  The only folks who can take on cars and motorcycles as long term investments are finance houses.
Anyway, anybody else got figures for test ride excess?  Must look into excess insurance.

[slappy]

Its the finance company who own the bike / car in a pcp deal, one thing to watch out for is when you insure the vehicle some insurers will ask who is the owner, you are not the owner ,just the registered keeper.

[fazersharp]

PCBs - finance - HP Et -Al . Personally I have never brought anything that I did not save up for and brought with my own money,(apart from Sharp Hall ) maybe I have been lucky and not been in a desperate need for something that had to be new. I think that if you can afford finance then you must be rich ! 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Totally agree Fazersharp.  Finance usually (used to be always) means you pay more for the product at the end of the day.PCP is a little different in that you are not buying anything. 

Anyway I'm in the fortunate position that I can afford a new bike.  Perhaps the biggest barrier to me getting a new bike is the dealers.  I just generally hate them. 

Anyway just phoned Two Wheels in Edinburgh, they do Triumph and Honda.  1 grand excess - it's still steep but I can get my head round it.  I asked about tyres, sure they say, you can have whatever tyres you want on the bike - might be a small charge for if it's a dearer tyre plus fitting charge. 

The guy on the phone sounded like he wanted to sell me a bike.

[steve 10562cc]

Documentation fee charge £85 and £105 been asked to pay especially when paying cash what the f*ck is that all about, all they do is put your name and address on the reg doc and post it. Walked away twice once from once from a main Ford dealership wanted to charge me £105 on a 18month old Mondeo ST200 cash sale. The other one a £1500 bike at a large dealer     

[Dudeofrude]

Documentation fee charge £85 and £105 been asked to pay especially when paying cash what the f*ck is that all about, all they do is put your name and address on the reg doc and post it. Walked away twice once from once from a main Ford dealership wanted to charge me £105 on a 18month old Mondeo ST200 cash sale. The other one a £1500 bike at a large dealer   

Problem is cash isn't king anymore. I've been told by many a dealer that cash is more hassle and less profit so they don't really want it.
When they manage to sell you a PCP or HP deal they not only get the profit from the car, they also get commission from the finance company, not to mention all the crap they can add on without you realising.
The only people that want cash are the back alley salesman that can pocket the lot without declaring on their tax return haha