Date: 21-03-19  Time: 07:34 AM

Author Topic: R1 forks set up / adjustments  (Read 627 times)

Trebus

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R1 forks set up / adjustments
« on: 10 July 2018, 08:39:37 PM »
As I know this has been done lots of times, looking for some advice.

Recently did the mod, R1 4xv forks with R1 yokes and pressed Fazer stem fitted. Springs not changed and used Motorex 7.5w oil, mainly due to time constraints and was available from stock. Weight in full gear for me is approx 80kg. All settings as per 4xv R1 as a starting point.

The problem I have is that it seems to patter and a bit pogo sticky over bumps. No issues with head bearings etc.

Is it likely the springs are way wrong or oil viscosity? Or perhaps needs more rebound adding? I’m far from a suspension specialist but it just feels a bit wrong.

Thanks in advance.


celticbiker

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #1 on: 10 July 2018, 09:56:16 PM »
First off I'd suggest the oil is way off. Castrol 10w is the closest to the correct viscosity.
Although it says 10w on the bottle it means nothing, different manufacturers 10w have different viscosities.
Once you have the correct oil you can start playing with set up.
Till then I'd suggest making sure the static and dynamic sag is correct front and rear.
How many clicks out are your compression and rebound damping settings now and how many clicks do you have available on each?
Rear damping settings information would be handy too.
Where are you based? if it's not too far I don't mind meeting up for a looksee.
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5LV

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #2 on: 10 July 2018, 10:21:50 PM »
Until you get your spring rate correct you are pissing into the wind. Standard 4xv springs are .7xxkg/mm. After 20 years they'll be a lot softer. I'd suggest between .8 & .9kg/mm max depending on riding style. After that you can mess about with the damping.

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #3 on: 11 July 2018, 12:14:07 AM »
Cheers chaps. I’m based in Leicestershire.

Rear shock is from R6, not sure on settings but it feels good.

I thought I might get away with standard springs, opinions are varied on this subject to say the least. They don’t feel too soft but I know this is quite subjective. Overall it turns better so I’m convinced enough to persevere with the R1 set up rather than the standard forks which could go back in, got a donor stem for the conversion.

PieEater

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #4 on: 11 July 2018, 10:18:56 AM »
Before you start spending money it sounds like you need to look at your firming up the damping probably both compression and rebound but I would start with rebound if the front is pogoing. Go out for a ride and make small adjustments then ride until you have figured out whether the bike feels better or worse then make further adjustments until you have it where you feel it is handling the best, once you've done rebound move on to compression. It's not rocket science or anything to be wary of.
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 10:20:22 AM by PieEater »

5LV

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #5 on: 11 July 2018, 01:22:28 PM »
Std dry weight for r1 is 390lbs
Fazer is 458lbs
Expecting to be able to swap forks over without any mods is incredibly optimistic.
Spring rate, then damping.
I forget which model of gsxr 750 it is (iirc it's the k1-3, but don't quote me), but with a 10mm spacer the std spring is ideal for the r1 forks and plenty out there cheap.
Take my advice or leave it, but remember I used to spanner for Jim Moodie and earned a living from translating rider talk to engineering solutions.

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #6 on: 11 July 2018, 11:30:37 PM »
Std dry weight for r1 is 390lbs
Fazer is 458lbs
Expecting to be able to swap forks over without any mods is incredibly optimistic.
Spring rate, then damping.
I forget which model of gsxr 750 it is (iirc it's the k1-3, but don't quote me), but with a 10mm spacer the std spring is ideal for the r1 forks and plenty out there cheap.
Take my advice or leave it, but remember I used to spanner for Jim Moodie and earned a living from translating rider talk to engineering solutions.
:agree
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Plus the standard fork springs are progressive and go from 8.1 to 11.8 and they are considered too soft by most owners. With standard R1 7.1 linear springs you would never get the most basic of items  "laden sag" anywhere near what would suit you. At 135m the fork stroke on the R1 forks is 5mm less than the OEM Fazer your start point for sag would probably be between 33 and 45mm
Both bikes as far as I know take 5w oil as standard which is considered to light and 10w is a better option. However changing the oil without changing the springs will make matters worse.
One of the biggest issues I  found with the 1000 was its tendency to run wide on acceleration out of bends (Understeer). Trying to dial that out was extremly difficult, but once I got it sorted the bike is a joy to ride fast.
I maintained the standard forks and used 10w oil and Wilber progressive springs.
 The reason I fitted Wilber progressive springs in the end  was simply because I do a lot of 2 up riding and travel on very undulating roads (as Skippernick discovered  :lol ).


5LV  You would never hear much of Jim nowadays where is he now? Great rider, one of the few who made on road and track. I will never forget how lucky he was when he got caught up in the aftermath of the accident that took David Jefferies out  :(

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #7 on: 12 July 2018, 04:44:37 PM »

One of the biggest issues I  found with the 1000 was its tendency to run wide on acceleration out of bends (Understeer). Trying to dial that out was extremly difficult, but once I got it sorted the bike is a joy to ride fast.
I maintained the standard forks and used 10w oil and Wilber progressive springs.
 The reason I fitted Wilber progressive springs in the end  was simply because I do a lot of 2 up riding and travel on very undulating roads (as Skippernick discovered  :lol ).


I have no idea how to set up suspension. Fortunately, I got lucky with the purchase and fitting (by Devilsyam) of a set of R1 forks that had already been treated by K-Tech. I haven't the first idea what they did, but it all seems perfect to me  :D


I hope this helps  :lol

unfazed

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #8 on: 13 July 2018, 05:31:49 PM »
Extremely useful as usual, an absolute mine of information 🤣🤣🤣

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #9 on: 13 July 2018, 07:21:32 PM »
Cheers for the good input everyone. I’ll sort the springs and go from there. Not been using the bike much but like to have it available, sounds ungrateful but it’s been that hot I haven’t found the inclination to use it for work on the relatively short journey! I’ll be moaning that it’s too cold come October!

PieEater

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #10 on: 13 July 2018, 08:01:15 PM »
The reason I suggested you first try making adjustments to the damping was that you said that he springs felt firm to you, though you admitted you're not experienced with suspension. Unfazed says the stock R1 springs are considered by most owners to be too soft so it may be possible that your forks have upgraded springs already, unless you know for sure that they are stock. Having said that there is no arguing with 5LV that the GEN1 is heavier than the R1, which is why the stock R1 settings will not be working for you and why you will need to adjust the damping. I'd suggest to confirm if the springs are too soft that you check rider sag i.e how much fork travel is taken up when you are sat on the bike.

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2019, 08:46:07 PM »
Long overdue update!

Bought some heavier springs a few months ago and in the process of fitting them. I read on here that Triumph 675 springs could be fitted and after doing some cross referring against K Tech / Ohlins sites. So got some second hand from EBay. Very slightly longer but should be fine. Decided I should do the forks seals as well so need to get some ordered. But all being well she should be sorted for spring.

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #12 on: 11 March 2019, 08:48:40 PM »
Missing front end 😀

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #13 on: 11 March 2019, 08:50:57 PM »
And still got this to use in the interim

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #14 on: 14 March 2019, 07:23:03 PM »
For anyone out there thinking of fitting R1 4XV forks, here is what I did to rebuild them. Falcon's guide used to fit them.


Firstly, here is a good 4XV guide http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=7770



Laser 6353 spring compressor, £20 new. This is a bit tricky to use with one person as you need more than 2 hands, however I was able to use 2 ratchet straps to compress the spring and hold in place while I undid the nut. Be careful!




Springs - Triumph Street Triple standard springs (2008-2012). 0.95 linear. These measure 258mm compared with 4XV stated length 255mm (mine were more like 250mm) Ebay £17


Oil - Shell Advance 5W. This has a Centistoke rating of 21 compared with standard Yamaha oil of 15.6. Air gap of 100mm used as apposed to standard gap of 78mm. Some internet wisdom suggested a larger gap however 100mm is my starting point


Fork seals. Not leaking but thought I'd change them while they were out. NOK original fitment from Brook Suspension, same as Yamaha but came in at less than £18 and next day delivery.


Not tried it yet but hoping for a positive result.
« Last Edit: 14 March 2019, 07:25:05 PM by Trebus »

Trebus

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Re: R1 forks set up / adjustments
« Reply #15 on: 14 March 2019, 07:26:10 PM »
One man compression