Date: 28-03-24  Time: 19:43 pm

Author Topic: Running rich with full monty  (Read 2802 times)

dazza

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Running rich with full monty
« on: 01 June 2018, 12:25:29 pm »
So, recently had the chance to get the Fazer on a dyno and the operator said it was running a bit rich.
Can anyone confirm that this is normal with a full monty'd bike ?
A few others said theirs  are running rich too which makes me think this is normal, just after some more opinions or a definitive answer.
So, what's yours running like?
« Last Edit: 01 June 2018, 07:14:00 pm by dazza »

Kenbob

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #1 on: 02 June 2018, 01:21:46 am »
If you read pats cartest web page re the Ivan’s jet kit, it addresses a number of issues with the stock jetting,ie, lean running mid rpms and overly rich running at high rpms along with other issues.
If your Dyno man says it’s running slightly rich as opposed to overly rich then that’s a bonus.
I had my fazer thou pre Ivan’s and had mike install the kit, needles to say it was a big improvement over stock so if I had mine dynoed I wouldn’t be bothered if it were still slightly rich.
I must admit though that I would’ve expected more than 134 bhp and 78 ft lbs of torque, sounds like stock figures.

kebab19

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #2 on: 02 June 2018, 07:25:40 am »
I must admit though that I would’ve expected more than 134 bhp and 78 ft lbs of torque, sounds like stock figures.
On Ivan's website the standard bike dyno curve peaks at just under 122bhp with about 70lbs torque.   Assuming that the OP has standard headers and a more open end-can then his printout reads well.... if it were measured on the same dyno.
But for maximum ponies I believe the MB kit needs a full exhaust system (headers as well as an end can) to reach peak power of around 140bhp. But the price to pay for fitting a full system is losing some of the low-down torque, which would translate to a more disappointing experience on the road. So keeping torque and 'only' making 135 hp sounds like the best of both worlds.

It is however true that 13:1 usually represents running rich, 13.5:1 or thereabouts would be closer to ideal. Then again, assuming everything is fitted correctly Ivan must have had compelling reasons for settling on his jetkit running rich.

Edit: Just adding this from https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/airfuel_ratio_tuning_rich_vs_lean :
Generally, normally-aspirated spark-ignition (SI) gasoline engines produce maximum power just slightly rich of stoichiometric. However, in practice it is kept between 12:1 and 13:1 in order to keep exhaust gas temperatures in check and to account for variances in fuel quality. This is a realistic full-load AFR on a normally-aspirated engine but can be dangerously lean with a highly-boosted engine.
Rich usually means more fuel consumption - what sort of mpg is the bike delivering compared to pre-jet kit installation? 
« Last Edit: 02 June 2018, 09:22:34 am by kebab19 »

Ricky

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #3 on: 02 June 2018, 10:36:11 am »
After  having my bike the full Monty, it has definitely lost mpg, hard to say how much but the fuel light comes on about  30 miles earlier give or take.Performance wise big difference.

PieEater

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #4 on: 02 June 2018, 12:00:12 pm »
My Chart (Full Monty, no baffle in can)





The Dyno chap who did my runs was impressed with the fuelling, it may be a bit rich but it's very linear.
Fuel economy is dependant on how you ride, I can get as little as 130 miles from a tank or as much as 200. In some ways both are due to the Ivan's kit as it's more fun to stay up the top end of the revs but it's also incredibly smooth in top gear at low revs so you can pootle around and get ~55 MPG.

Hugh Mungus

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #5 on: 02 June 2018, 12:19:39 pm »
Has anyone got a dyno printout of a stock motor?
Just interested in the fuel mapping really.

dazza

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #6 on: 02 June 2018, 12:40:38 pm »
Interesting edit Kebab. That would make sense as to why it runs a tad rich.
I did get my bike Dyno'd shortly after I got it as I felt it was holding back and sure enough it was found to be restricted but annoyingly I had to pester Lagunas in Ashford for the printout and when I got it it didn't show the fuelling graph.
They did say the fuelling was perfect though if I can remember rightly.
As for fuel economy difference, it's really hard to say as there are so many variables. The main one being how you ride it but on a long run I have achieved over 250 miles to a tank so it's really not an issue I'm bothered about.
There was another Fazer thou on the Dyno the same day who said he'd just had the slip on kit fitted but felt it was holding back.
Turned out he had a suspected coil breaking down as 2&3 cylinders were 20 degrees cooler than 1&4 and it was only achieving around 96BHP.
An early carb'd  model R1 was only producing 120 as it was running rich so I'm happy with the results.
The bike still rides superbly and goes like stink and in my case just keeps getting better and faster with time.
This is the printout back in 2012.

Kenbob

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #7 on: 02 June 2018, 02:53:38 pm »
Would like to see a Dyno chart of a stock motor too, quoted power figures are pretty optimistic.

Falcon 269

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Re: Running rich with full monty
« Reply #8 on: 06 June 2018, 08:41:05 am »
Hi all,

Not been posting for a while because we're on tour around Europe in the motorhome and have other things occupying our time. :)

Ivan's own website has the dyno charts for stock bike vs his various configurations, including with full exhaust systems:

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/fz1dyno.htm

Slightly rich with the Full Monty is normal and correct.  Good info in the post kebab 19 put up above.

Ride more, worry less. :)

Back in a month or so .... ;)