Bizarre EXUP self-test behaviour

[roxburd]

Does anyone know how the self-test turns the EXUP???


I imagined it would open it right up and then close it to the 'zero'd' position - with the tabs over the hole. Mine moves it from the zero'd position even MORE closed!!! It doesn't get very far because that's as far as the valve will turn. The self-test then fails and I get the 7k error displayed.


I've taken the cables off and the valve feels free to turn. I've freed the cables up so they have decent slack and the tabs line up over the hole (zero'd).

I usually do my own work on the bike but when I went to service the valve I discovered that one of the pulley plate bolts had sheared off before I bought it and I didn't fancy trying to drill that out of there so put it in to the local mechanic. When it came back the pulley plate bolts were good and the valve serviced but I now get this 7k error. Don't ask why I'm not returning it to the mechanic - it took 6 weeks and a ton of cash last time and it's not an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat.


Anyway, I'm now wondering if I need to adjust the cables further so the valve sits rotated in a more open position so the self-test can close the valve further - currently the test is driving the valve to it's fully closed position and failing - if I adjust the cables to rotate the valve to a slightly more open position the test can then close it further like it wants to...


But is that normal - for the test to start by *closing* the valve?? Like I said, I expected it to do an open-close cycle, not close-open-close - or whatever it is supposed to do...


The servo does start to open the valve when I rev the engine up (though I don't know at what engine speed as I can't watch the pulley and the rev counter at the same time!).


BTW, thanks Yamaha for putting the servo there - I hope I never have to get it out!!! I also found that the mechanic had disconnected the electrics to the coolant filler (temperature gauge??). Ah yes, that's why I do stuff myself...

[unfazed]

Sounds like its not adjusted properly, start the bike let idle for a few seconds, hit the kill switch and see where the pulley returns to. It should come to rest with the fork of the pulley over the hole, if not adjust it with the inline cable adjusters under the tank.

[robbo]

Just a thought. As you didn't do the work, what's the chances that your mechanic has swapped the cables over so that the self test is now going anti clockwise rather than clockwise. If you took them off and identified which one pulls on the self test, that should go over the top of the pulley to the hole on the left side of the pulley. As I said, just a thought but won't take long to find out.

[PieEater]

In case you haven't gone through the FAQ and seen the link this may be of use - http://www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/exupmaintenance.html

[roxburd]

Just a thought. As you didn't do the work, what's the chances that your mechanic has swapped the cables over so that the self test is now going anti clockwise rather than clockwise. If you took them off and identified which one pulls on the self test, that should go over the top of the pulley to the hole on the left side of the pulley. As I said, just a thought but won't take long to find out.

Yeah, thanks @robbo, I had wondered about that but they have very different lengths of exposed cable sticking out from the sheath - so much that you actually couldn't swap them by accident as the short one is way too short to reach round.

[roxburd]

In case you haven't gone through the FAQ and seen the link this may be of use - http://www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/exupmaintenance.html

Thanks @PieEater, very useful guide - that's the one I was working from :-)

[roxburd]

Sounds like its not adjusted properly, start the bike let idle for a few seconds, hit the kill switch and see where the pulley returns to. It should come to rest with the fork of the pulley over the hole, if not adjust it with the inline cable adjusters under the tank.

Ah, right, will give that a go this eve!! Thx @unfazed

[5LV]

the right way


the wrong way

[roxburd]

So here's some interesting info that I haven't seen full explained in the Haynes manual, the Yamaha manual or any of the online guides...

I bet there's loads of Yamahas out there on the road with mis-adjusted EXUP valves because of this...

The EXUP control system has *two* reference points - I'll call them start and idle:
 - the start position is where the valve should be when the engine is being started up.
 - the idle position is where the valve should be when the engine is idling.


The start position - fork directly over hole.


The idle position - valve rotated (clockwise / opened) 30 degrees.

Here's the tricky bit - the valve should be adjusted to the start position but the EXUP control system only returns the valve to the start position when the ignition is switched on and the engine is not running.

And when the ignition is switched on the control system 'self-test' only returns the valve to the start position - it doesn't do any other full-deflection type of test movement. So if the valve is already in the start position it does nothing at all. It's not much of a self test really.

So, if you stop the engine by use of the run/kill switch or stall the engine the control system will zero the valve to the start position.

But if you have the engine running and switch the ignition off the control system is powered down immediately and the valve is left wherever it was (probably in the idle position). This is what my mechanic had done - the control system left the valve in the IDLE position and he'd then gone and adjusted the valve to the START position with the fork over the hole - 30 degrees retarded.

So my valve probably started off pretty well adjusted and the guy I paid to fix it adjusted it to 30 degrees more closed than it should be. Fortunately, it was so far retarded that when the control system tried to move it to the start position the valve actually hit its end-stop and wouldn't go far enough and the control system threw the 7k signal, other wise I'd have never known. Yeah, that's why I prefer to do stuff myself...

So, basically, all the instructions I've seen are incomplete or at least unclear - it is essential to have the ignition on for a few seconds without the engine running so the control system can set the valve to the start positon before you do the adjustment.

unfazed - you were right - gotta use the kill switch, not the ignition. When I see 'hit the kill switch' I tend to just switch the ignition off automatically but in this case it's gotta be the kill switch!

[PieEater]

This is from Pat's site that I linked to earlier, it's quite explicit in stating that you should turn the ignition on and then off to allow for the servo to move the valve to the correct location before making any adjustments;

Underneath the cover is the Exhaust Valve pulley. It is controlled by two cables. The free play in each cable should not exceed 1.5 mm (0.06 in.). That 1.5 mm is free slack, movement without any pressure at all, not as far as you can push it. Mine were very loose. The 'fork' in the pulley should line up over the hole as shown. If it does not then it may be 30 degrees or more advanced. Turn the ignition ON then OFF. The pulley fork should now be aligned over the hole. If the pulley is not lined up over the hole then the cables are very likely improperly adjusted beyond the tension adjustment. You should loosen both cables until you can manually rotate the pulley until it lines up over the hole (see below how to loosen the cables.) You should do the ignition ON then OFF sequence again to make sure the servo motor is properly zeroed. Then proceed with the tension adjustment.

[unfazed]

You are correct Roxburd, I also thought that the instruction in all manuals are a bit unclear.  Even though Pats Site does state the on/off it is easy to get mixed up in the on off and running the engine, the kill switch method is just that bit more foolproof. 

If it is going to take a bit of time getting the adjustments correct it is advisable on the 2003 onward models and US imports to pull the plugs on the headlights to save the battery. Just don't forget to plug them back in when finished.  Very important also is to allow sufficient slack on the cables.

[roxburd]

This is from Pat's site that I linked to earlier, it's quite explicit in stating that you should turn the ignition on and then off to allow for the servo to move the valve to the correct location before making any adjustments;

Underneath the cover is the Exhaust Valve pulley. It is controlled by two cables. The free play in each cable should not exceed 1.5 mm (0.06 in.). That 1.5 mm is free slack, movement without any pressure at all, not as far as you can push it. Mine were very loose. The 'fork' in the pulley should line up over the hole as shown. If it does not then it may be 30 degrees or more advanced. Turn the ignition ON then OFF. The pulley fork should now be aligned over the hole. If the pulley is not lined up over the hole then the cables are very likely improperly adjusted beyond the tension adjustment. You should loosen both cables until you can manually rotate the pulley until it lines up over the hole (see below how to loosen the cables.) You should do the ignition ON then OFF sequence again to make sure the servo motor is properly zeroed. Then proceed with the tension adjustment.

Pat's guide is fantastic - a great guide, well written with great photos. Whoever Pat is, thanks for the info, really.

So I followed it - I turned the ignition on and the servo would move the pulley from 20 degrees ANTI-clockwise of the start position even further anti-clockwise against the valve's end-stop. The guide doesn't mention this. As I didn't know what the 'self-test' was supposed to do I didn't know if this was correct behaviour or not. The guide isn't clear on this specific aspect - it says "Turn the ignition ON then OFF. The pulley fork should now be aligned over the hole." Where should it start? Which way should it turn? Does it just go directly to the start position? I expected it to do a fuller end-to-end test to really check the valve can move freely throughout the range, not just move directly to the start position. Was this the cables 'improperly adjusted beyond the tension adjustment' (no, it wasn't) or was it a sensor failure or a failure in the controller?

The 'self-test' is actually just a reset to the start position with a fault signal if there's too much resistance. If the valve is already in the start position (as it would be if I stopped the engine with the kill switch then left it out on the rain in the back garden for 20 years) it doesn't even move at all - that's not much of a self-test really, is it? It's a great guide but if someone ends up in my position it's helpful to know the full picture, IMHO. It certainly helped me in my particular position - my cables weren't 'improperly adjusted beyond the tension adjustment' as Pat envisaged (and designed the guide for), they were improperly adjusted wide of the mark by 30 degrees by a mechanic who didn't know what he was doing.

If you already know what it does or you're just adjusting your cables a bit then Pat's guide is obviously all anyone would ever need, right? But if anyone finds turning the ignition ON and OFF just makes things worse and the pulley is moving in the wrong direction then I hope this info might help them realise what's going on. I guess that's why Pat posted his guide too... we're addressing slightly different starting points though.

[roxburd]

You are correct Roxburd, I also thought that the instruction in all manuals are a bit unclear.  Even though Pats Site does state the on/off it is easy to get mixed up in the on off and running the engine, the kill switch method is just that bit more foolproof. 

If it is going to take a bit of time getting the adjustments correct it is advisable on the 2003 onward models and US imports to pull the plugs on the headlights to save the battery. Just don't forget to plug them back in when finished.  Very important also is to allow sufficient slack on the cables.

I've finally found a use for the kill switch after 30 years of riding! Cheers!


I got the cables all adjusted correctly this morning and everything seems tickey-boo now - just need some decent weather so I can give it a proper test!

[5LV]

Have you had a refund from your mechanic?

[Ricky]

I had the same experience with my mechanic. After my exup value was stuck he freed it all up and felt a big difference in performance, but having read about peoples experiences with the adjustments , I looked at mine and found that first the cables were not at the correct tension a bit lose but no 7k problem and the valve was in the wrong position using Pats method. I fixed best I could and the performance increases again.
I went to see the mechanic but sadly he tells me he has been fixing bikes for 35 years and has been adjusting Fazer exup value since the beginning and does not need to read the manual as he can work it out for him self and does not think it is good to have the cables to tight, and did not appreciate me telling him how to do his job.
Very sad has he otherwise did a good job at a good price and I trusted him to do a good job

[roxburd]

I had the same experience with my mechanic. After my exup value was stuck he freed it all up and felt a big difference in performance, but having read about peoples experiences with the adjustments , I looked at mine and found that first the cables were not at the correct tension a bit lose but no 7k problem and the valve was in the wrong position using Pats method. I fixed best I could and the performance increases again.
I went to see the mechanic but sadly he tells me he has been fixing bikes for 35 years and has been adjusting Fazer exup value since the beginning and does not need to read the manual as he can work it out for him self and does not think it is good to have the cables to tight, and did not appreciate me telling him how to do his job.
Very sad has he otherwise did a good job at a good price and I trusted him to do a good job

I know they're extreme examples but many years ago a friend of mine collected his bike after having the front tyre replaced and after 100 miles or so the front brake caliper fell off. My uncle collected his car and drove it away and found out too late that they'd drained the old oil and not put any new in...

I've never done anything like that when I work on my own vehicles... you say "I fixed best I could" - better than your mechanic or my mechanic did it...

[roxburd]

Ah! So there's a curious thing...

My valve was noisy (rattly) and one of the the pulley plate bolts had sheared so I put in to the mechanic. He replaced some collars, a bush and a housing and adjusted the cables and charged me loads of money.
The valve did sound much quieter.
But the cables had been adjusted 30 degrees too far anticlockwise (valve closed). I adjusted them correctly. Now the bike is exactly as loud as it was before.


Adjusting the valve too far closed quietens it right down.


I wonder how many mechanics do that instead of servicing it...


So, my next question to the good folks of this forum - what should I do to quieten my valve down?


If what the mechanic has told me is true then he has already replaced the bush on the opposite side to the pulley. He didn't replace the bush on the pulley end because they was so much more expensive as you have to get the whole pulley plate, apparently. Obviously, I could replace the pulley-end bush/plate assembly now. How do I test whether it's out of service limits? Just measure the free movement, I guess.


The vale is only noisy when pulling away from a bend/roundabout at low road speed and low engine speed - my gut tells me that it might be end-float due to the bike being lent over. Yeah, sure, centripetal force should cancel the lean out but still there could be an end-float issue, right? Anyway, there's only three places it could be rattling - in the two end bushes and end-float. How would I measure end-float? Is it adjustable? I guess I can just bang in washers to take up and slack if there's no approved method...


Any advice much appreciated.


I'll not be taking it back to the mechanic I used before!

[unfazed]

What mileage is on the bike?

[roxburd]

What mileage is on the bike?

37,000

[unfazed]

The Mounting plate can wear on the inside and can cause side play and a bit of noise, however it does not effect the operation of the valve. Mine is worn enough and has a ridge, but works fine. (40000miles). Last time mine was rattling it was because I had to much slack in the cables.
The bush in the mounting plate is very easily removed, but be aware it is pushed out from the inside. I remove them using a vice and either 9 or10mm socket (cannot remember which) on the inside and a 21 mm on the outside.  Bushes are around £45 each. It will do no harm to replace it. The plate is around £125

[roxburd]

The Mounting plate can wear on the inside and can cause side play and a bit of noise, however it does not effect the operation of the valve. Mine is worn enough and has a ridge, but works fine. (40000miles). Last time mine was rattling it was because I had to much slack in the cables.
The bush in the mounting plate is very easily removed, but be aware it is pushed out from the inside. I remove them using a vice and either 9 or10mm socket (cannot remember which) on the inside and a 21 mm on the outside.  Bushes are around £45 each. It will do no harm to replace it. The plate is around £125

D'Oh! Too much slack in cables - that'll be the first thing to check then! Thanks, I should have thought of that. Haynes specification says 1.5mm cable free play (but not how it's measured) but the text says half a turn on each of the adjusters - I guess it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot really.

[robbo]

I'd have thought an engineering shop could make bushes for less money, if either of them was the problem. Even have them custom made to factor in any wear. Just a thought.

[unfazed]

Unfortunately they are not a normal steel or brass bush. Last time we had to cut one that was seized we found it to be an extremely hard brittle item. We cold not determine what it was made of. They do come up occasionally on eBay as new old stock for around £25.

[celticbiker]

I should imagine they are made of phosphor bronze.

[unfazed]

Did not think so any Phosphor Bronze bush I ever saw were Bronze in colour the one in the EXUP has a polished steel look