Date: 28-03-24  Time: 09:09 am

Author Topic: Gender discrimination  (Read 11098 times)

BBROWN1664

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Gender discrimination
« on: 26 March 2018, 12:16:40 pm »

The company I work for, in my view, seems to have a disproportionate number of females in top jobs when compared to the rank and file people proportion. According to the link below they also appear to earn less than their male equivalents. Are they equivalent though? Do they have comparable skills (probably) and experience (may not be quite as much)? Why do I think this? Because it always seems to be a case of positive discrimination when jobs are advertised. Less experienced, but female, candidates get the job ahead of their male opponents in the job contest.


Now, with the information being published, I guess the next big thing will be another year or three of no pay rises for men whilst the women get a pay rise just to bring them in line with the mens salaries. :evil

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43470827
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Fazerider

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #1 on: 26 March 2018, 02:25:21 pm »

Good point, job equivalence can be difficult to measure.
The recent row at the BBC where Carrie Gracie resigned as China Editor because she wasn’t being paid the same as the US/Canada Editor is a good example. Doubtless she could do Jon Sopel’s job with more success than he could do hers since he’s not a Mandarin speaker, but that’s not really the point.
Far more important is the value of the job, and I’d say news from the US and Canada is a good bit more worthwhile than that from China and the salary should reflect that. It should also reflect experience and take no regard as to whether the candidate has internal or external genitalia.
The BBC hasn’t appointed a replacement for Ms Gracie’s former post, China has merely been added to the Asia/Pacific Editor’s brief.

BBROWN1664

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #2 on: 26 March 2018, 03:12:31 pm »
There was a case recently where female shop till workers were claiming their job was equivalent to male (manual) workers in the distribution warehouse. What the report didn't say was that the male shop till workers actually earned the same as the female shop till workers and the female distribution workers earned the same as their male colleagues.

This was a case of job equivalency which is down to the company to decide but the BBC (and others) made it sound like it was a female/male thing.
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #3 on: 26 March 2018, 03:44:20 pm »
I totally agree. I have a friend who is a fireman and has been in the brigade for nearly 20 years. He was telling me that the recent push to have more women join has forced the training to be altered more to suit the female form. The times have been lengthened, the dummies(bodies?) Have been lightened to almost child weight and the amount of equipment they are supposed to carry has been lessened.
He also said basically if you try for a job you have to be either female or a minority to even stand a chance..... not because of racism or sexism but purely just to tick boxes so they can say they have a diverse' staff.
It sickens me all this 'equality' bollocks. Everyone isn't equal, that's just a fact of life.

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #4 on: 26 March 2018, 06:35:17 pm »
Trouble is with these surveys they don' tell the hole story, take 20 men 20 women compare there salarys the men earn more , but what they don't  mention is the men work a lot more hours.
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #5 on: 26 March 2018, 08:19:24 pm »
Where I work there are two women who both work in the office, there are 28 men doing the manual work.
In the female toilet there are four washbasins and four traps, in the mens two washbasins and two traps, now that is gender inequality!

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #6 on: 27 March 2018, 12:03:37 am »
Yes the gender pay gap is real and it's unfair. Traditionally, senior roles are dominated by white upper middle class men which skews the figures in favour of the male half of the workforce. Unfortunately not all male workers are executives, both men and women have suffered poor wages and working conditions at the hands of the 'men in grey suits'. Doesn't matter how many women they appoint at the top or push into middle management, the ordinary worker male & female still gets sh*t on.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2018, 12:06:27 am by celticdog »
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Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #7 on: 27 March 2018, 06:16:04 am »
Capitalism is unfair. But if you have capitalism, of course you'll have a pay gap. If you want communism, just say so.  :)

I had worked at a bike repair (and sale) shop. Had the same job title as all the other mechanics. A few top mechanics had about 50% higher pays. There were two women, with the same job title, but they didn't (want to) do any wrenching. Good workers as well, but they were doing the sales and customer talking. When I learned how much the "top" guys get paid, as well as which one among them got the biggest pay, didn't have any complaints. If anyone had asked me who I'd pay the most and, of all those people, who I would first pick for the job - those were the highest paid ones. If anyone did a pay review - yes, women were paid less. They were also not the one's coming in for overtime, weekend rushes etc, since they wanted to spend more time with their kids. It is cruel, unfair - capitalism always is. But I don't think it has much to do with gender.

BTW, pretty soon after having arrived there, the top guys would use my name as an example how it should be done. However, I left relatively quickly, having realised there's not much left to learn and opened my own shop. So far so good. If I had stayed there, I'd have asked for a higher pay. When hiring a mechanic, IMO it would be stupid to disregard a woman, or pay her less and have her leave, just because she's a woman. My main criteria would be the quality of work, attention to details, good "diplomacy" with the (troublesome) customers and commitment. This last thing is the main difference IMO. Women are probably not as crazy as men and most of them put family before the career.

All those studies never seem to ask the workers being studied what they thing of the pays. Same goes for managers, of course. Do those, less paid female workers/managers thing they deserve to be paid as high as the top paid workers/managers?

The greatest inequality is not between genders, but between classes. But you can't complain about that AND live in a capitalist country. It's like complaining about the heat in Africa.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2018, 06:28:46 am by Slaninar »
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #8 on: 29 March 2018, 01:12:04 pm »
The greatest inequality is not between genders, but between classes. But you can't complain about that AND live in a capitalist country. It's like complaining about the heat in Africa.

In THIS country (UK) I think the biggest issue (threat) are the "ethnic minorities".
They are coming here planting their seed, pushing their (third world) religions, then screaming racist when one of us "white" people criticise.

We have someone who just recently joined our team at work - he disappears off to the "prayer room" several times during the working day (about 20 minutes each time) - I didn't even know we had a payer room!! He never stated this was part of his daily ritual, when he came for the interview, plus from our perspective its another excuse for him to do nothing and slope out of the office.

They will happily isolate their daughters for getting into a relationship with someone outside of their "religion", for disrespecting their family (honour), yet the Males in these families will happily go around (in the UK) grooming "white girls"... then get a slap on the hand by the law, as this country is so PC and afraid to appear racist (back where we started).

It's a plague that will only get worse - yet lets all bury our heads and pretend its not happening (from the man on the street, establishments, to the law).
They are here to "enrich" society??? They refuse to contribute or interact with society, building up "communities" in towns and cities. Then we mock EDL !

Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #9 on: 29 March 2018, 06:30:26 pm »
The greatest inequality is not between genders, but between classes. But you can't complain about that AND live in a capitalist country. It's like complaining about the heat in Africa.

In THIS country (UK) I think the biggest issue (threat) are the "ethnic minorities".
They are coming here planting their seed, pushing their (third world) religions, then screaming racist when one of us "white" people criticise.

We have someone who just recently joined our team at work - he disappears off to the "prayer room" several times during the working day (about 20 minutes each time) - I didn't even know we had a payer room!! He never stated this was part of his daily ritual, when he came for the interview, plus from our perspective its another excuse for him to do nothing and slope out of the office.

They will happily isolate their daughters for getting into a relationship with someone outside of their "religion", for disrespecting their family (honour), yet the Males in these families will happily go around (in the UK) grooming "white girls"... then get a slap on the hand by the law, as this country is so PC and afraid to appear racist (back where we started).

It's a plague that will only get worse - yet lets all bury our heads and pretend its not happening (from the man on the street, establishments, to the law).
They are here to "enrich" society??? They refuse to contribute or interact with society, building up "communities" in towns and cities. Then we mock EDL !

Unfortunately, I've had the "pleasure" of living in a city that had it's population double in a relatively short period, mostly by refugees. Same nation, religion, but mostly from rural areas, with different mentality. And it wasn't very nice, in spite of relatively small differences.

It also depends a lot on the number (and percentage) of "incomers", as well as how you integrate them into society. A man I know who had worked all his life in Austria had an Austrian coleague comment, dead serious, in a friendly manner, something like: "I can't believe you really are a Serb, you are so nice and hard working!"   :rollin

As for complaints, some are OK, some are bullshit. Don't see any problems with grooming "white girls". Isolation for "getting into other religions" is bad IMO, though you could give a questionnarie to your friends:
1. "Do you hate/dislike Muslims"?
2. "Would you mind your daughter marrying a Muslim?"
And see the number of people answering with no, then yes.  :)

So being weary of "strangers" is not only a Muslim thing - the more primitive a culture, the more extreme it gets though I think.

For the worker - I'd say that in an 8 hour work day, having several 20 minute brakes can help if the job requires concentration.

This book was eye opening for me, in terms you reap what you sow:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes
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slappy

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #10 on: 29 March 2018, 06:45:55 pm »
The greatest inequality is not between genders, but between classes. But you can't complain about that AND live in a capitalist country. It's like complaining about the heat in Africa.

Don't see any problems with grooming "white girls".


I appreciate that English is probably not your first language but do you not realise what " grooming " means?
It is abhorrent for it to happen to any girl, no matter her skin colour or race.

Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #11 on: 29 March 2018, 07:11:50 pm »
I appreciate that English is probably not your first language but do you not realise what " grooming " means?
It is abhorrent for it to happen to any girl, no matter her skin colour or race.


Understood it as courting - so you can disregard my comment on that, thanks for pointing it out.
This dictionary gives two definitions, the latter one is about pedophiles?!?
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/grooming
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slappy

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #12 on: 29 March 2018, 09:34:36 pm »
I appreciate that English is probably not your first language but do you not realise what " grooming " means?
It is abhorrent for it to happen to any girl, no matter her skin colour or race.


Understood it as courting - so you can disregard my comment on that, thanks for pointing it out.
This dictionary gives two definitions, the latter one is about pedophiles?!?
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/grooming


Thats why I pointed it out, was pretty sure you did not realise what the word means nowadays.

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #13 on: 30 March 2018, 12:16:23 am »
.
« Last Edit: 30 March 2018, 12:43:52 am by mtread »

Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #14 on: 30 March 2018, 10:08:30 am »
Thats why I pointed it out, was pretty sure you did not realise what the word means nowadays.


Yup. Reminded myself of Mr Bean in America.   :rollin

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slappy

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #15 on: 30 March 2018, 02:46:57 pm »
Its amazing how a word or gesture can mean totally different things in different parts of the world. Used to work with quite a few Americans and one in particular always used to say after a break it was time to get off our " fannies"  and get back to work. We had to explain to him in that whilst in America the word might mean your  bottom, here in the UK it meant vagina and that he should be careful where he says it and in what company.


Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #16 on: 31 March 2018, 06:20:44 am »
Its amazing how a word or gesture can mean totally different things in different parts of the world. Used to work with quite a few Americans and one in particular always used to say after a break it was time to get off our " fannies"  and get back to work. We had to explain to him in that whilst in America the word might mean your  bottom, here in the UK it meant vagina and that he should be careful where he says it and in what company.

 :lol

There are words in my country that have different meanings in different parts.
Local word for "a guy" ("a man", "a friend" etc) here is "Gary". No one knows why. But some friends came from Belgrade, spent the day here and at the end one of them (a blonde, just to stay on topic  :)  ) asked: "who's that Gary, everyone seems to know?"   :rollin

The other "pearl" that almost got me in trouble, but turned out well was "hump" (as the hunchback of Notre Dame). To hump means to avoid paying for something. To do something for free, or skip queue etc. is to hump in (for a lack of better translation).
So I'm in Belgrade with some friends, there's a reggae band playing, but we're flat broke. A few musicians were chilling in front of the club, along with bouncers. Take my jacket off, put my backpack on the back and put the jacket over it. Approach the bouncers with two friends. They ask for the tickets and I show my hump and ask can we just enter on the hump? The bouncer gets pissed off, gets up from his chair, but the musicians (probably familiar with the term) start laughing their asses off, tell the bouncer to take it easy and let us all come in. It was nice.  :)
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slappy

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #17 on: 31 March 2018, 01:56:15 pm »
Gary, from an very popular old tv show called " Only Fools and Horses".


https://youtu.be/OuV86BFIsHc

robbo

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #18 on: 31 March 2018, 07:14:31 pm »
Love it. Almost as good as "I'm undoing the big nut Del".
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #19 on: 31 March 2018, 07:30:09 pm »
My personal favourite
 
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Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #20 on: 01 April 2018, 06:46:56 am »
Gary, from an very popular old tv show called " Only Fools and Horses".


https://youtu.be/OuV86BFIsHc

That's the pronunciation! Spot on!    :rollin
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #21 on: 01 April 2018, 10:23:56 am »
Quote
In THIS country (UK) I think the biggest issue (threat) are the "ethnic minorities".
They are coming here planting their seed, pushing their (third world) religions, then screaming racist when one of us "white" people criticise.

At this point I really don’t think you need to be from an ethnic minority background to be screaming racist EDL supporting fuck pig! :eek
Quote
It also depends a lot on the number (and percentage) of "incomers", as well as how you integrate them into society.
Slaninar, what chance has any immigrant to England got of ‘integrating’ when extremist views, such as those held by focced off are widely held, and indeed are not immediately questioned. 
Such racist, frankly fascist views surely have no place on this forum.
 

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2018, 10:30:20 am »
Quote
1. "Do you hate/dislike Muslims"?
2. "Would you mind your daughter marrying a Muslim?"
And see the number of people answering with no, then yes.  :)



I don’t have a daughter.  But if I did and such a situation occured, well, yes I would be worried about my daughter marrying a practising Muslim.  Of course I would.  Just as I would be worried about my daughter marrying practising Christian.  So I’m not sure what the point of such a question is.  Or is it just a loaded question to try and justify a racist stand point? 
« Last Edit: 01 April 2018, 12:18:58 pm by VNA »

Slaninar

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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #23 on: 01 April 2018, 03:42:46 pm »
Quote
1. "Do you hate/dislike Muslims"?
2. "Would you mind your daughter marrying a Muslim?"
And see the number of people answering with no, then yes.  :)



I don’t have a daughter.  But if I did and such a situation occured, well, yes I would be worried about my daughter marrying a practising Muslim.  Of course I would.  Just as I would be worried about my daughter marrying practising Christian.  So I’m not sure what the point of such a question is.  Or is it just a loaded question to try and justify a racist stand point?


The point is that discrimination often comes from prejudice, which people naturally have - even if they are not aware they do. My sister did a sociology test, where the term gypsy was used - and many people who answered the other questions in a "non-racist" pattern "failed" the daughter question. People who claim they have nothing against gypsies. For example.
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Re: Gender discrimination
« Reply #24 on: 01 April 2018, 05:15:29 pm »
It's like all this anti-Semitism that's around Labour at the moment.

Awful.