Date: 14-12-18  Time: 05:21 AM

Author Topic: Where to find employment legal advice?  (Read 324 times)

Bretty

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Where to find employment legal advice?
« on: 03 November 2018, 01:33:32 PM »
Hi guys,


I'm not really asking for legal advice (unless you're qualified or have experienced this.)


Buy how can I go about getting some (cost effective) legal advice around employment law, specifically around being made redundant? Where do you go? Citizens advice? ACAS? Or can anyone recommend any specialists?


Specifically I need to be prepared for some HR interveiws and may have a case for unfair dismissal, and also want to challenge that they are withholding some bonus payments.
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Fazerider

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #1 on: 03 November 2018, 02:00:09 PM »

Is there a trade union that you're either already a member of, or can join?
When my line manager was being an arse a few years ago I joined the union and had access to their experienced legal personnel.

Millietant

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #2 on: 03 November 2018, 04:39:03 PM »
I'm not a legal expert, but have unfortunately had to both make lots of people people redundant, and been made redundant (twice) myself.

If you are at the stage of being notified that you are "at risk" of redundancy and are in a pool for selection, then there's not much anyone can do for you at this point - as you've not been selected for redundancy, so you have nothing to challenge.

If you have already been notified that you have been selected and you are believe your employer has not acted properly in either the process, the selection criteria, your scoring, or your benefits, then either a union rep if you have one, or if not an employment specialist solicitor.

I've seen too many people rely on info from "friends" and unofficial/amateur "experts", when they challenge their selection to their cost, that I'd say that if you genuinely feel you have an issue (but read carefully everything your employer has given you, and your employee handbook/ T's and C's), then spend a little on professional advice - but they (like the Citizens Advice Bureau) will need copies of those docs and that info, before they'll be able to tell you whether they think you have a case or not.

If you work for a decent company, they will have done their due diligence and followed the processes and you'd be unlikely to prove they're wrong (they should have a HR advisor who has guided them through every step of the process). If you work for a company that don't follow the rules in all other HR respects and generally treat their workforce without the right level of respect, then I'd go for their throats with an employment solicitor (as they'll likely cut corners in their process).
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 06:04:21 PM by Millietant »

BBROWN1664

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #3 on: 03 November 2018, 06:00:09 PM »
CAB may be able to help. If not, are you in a union?

I worked for a company a few years ago that thought they could act as they would in Canada where they were based. Following the first wave of redundancies, they were "educated" by various legal eagles appointed by the people they selected for redundancy so followed the book for the second wave in which I was pushed out the door.
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Bretty

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #4 on: 03 November 2018, 06:08:54 PM »
I'm not a member of a union. Which one would be best to join and how quickly could I make use of their legal services?


I am keen to get a professional on the case.. My main concern is around claiming some outstanding benefits, which they are trying to deny me. But I'm also unclear about how they can make my old position redundant, so want a professional opinion on that to.


Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.
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Fazerider

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #5 on: 03 November 2018, 08:46:56 PM »
The trade union to join should be the one related to your profession. For some job descriptions there may be more than one that is appropriate.
Your employer may not "recognise" the relevant union, but that won't matter if you're just making use of the union's legal expertise. I'd expect them to be happy to offer guidance as soon as they have your first subscription.

Millietant

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #6 on: 03 November 2018, 09:10:33 PM »
I'm not so sure the union would be so obliging - as you won't be an employee of the business once your case is sorted.


It does seem "wrong" to just try to use the union as a free/cheap source of legal aid, when you've chosen for years (presumably) not to support the union. Just remember, lots of other people have been financing their union to represent them, and then for a non-member who has never contributed to try and get them to help seems "unfair".


Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising you for trying Bretty (I'd do the same), but I am trying to point out why I'd expect them to not be very receptive. Their taking up your case will cost a lot more than a subscription (which is usually taken monthly from your salary, which you won't have) and it will disadvantage every other legitimate regular fee-paying member, who will be subsidising your help.


Personally, I'd get an assessment from an employment lawyer, based on every bit of info I could get my hands on, before deciding what to do next.




Fazerider

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #7 on: 03 November 2018, 11:27:54 PM »

Yes, it is a bit cynical to join a union only when you discover you need one, you'll probably hear the phrase "deathbed conversion". Nonetheless they'll gain more from your subs than they expend if you're only asking for advice rather than representation.
In my case the subscriptions were debited from my bank account, not deducted from salary... and that was for a union recognised by my employer. Since my initial dispute I remained a member and continue to be one despite having been made redundant 4 months ago. I'll cease that once i'm satisfied that my former employer has finally paid what they owe me, but the union won't have lost out on my account.

YamFazFan

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #8 on: 04 November 2018, 12:16:10 AM »
Obviously not requesting you be specific about personal employment details/company etc..., but what profession is your current employment?.

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VNA

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #9 on: 04 November 2018, 11:37:59 AM »
 Sorry to hear of your employment issues Bretty.  Hope you get them resolved satisfactorily.


Quote
Since my initial dispute I remained a member and continue to be one despite having been made redundant 4 months ago. I'll cease that once i'm satisfied that my former employer has finally paid what they owe me, but the union won't have lost out on my account.


 I dunno how many times folks at work have moaned at me and said – What’s The Union ever done for us?  My reply is always - What have you done for The Union?
 
« Last Edit: 04 November 2018, 01:51:39 PM by VNA »

Bretty

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #10 on: 04 November 2018, 12:27:23 PM »
Thanks fellas! I appreciate the sympathy, but no worries, I'll be ok! :-)
To answer the question, I'm in technical sales.

I don't mind paying for legal support. I'm just trying to be sensible with money for the forseeable future.
Also I have no idea where to start with getting it. I didnt want to just google search for employment legal advice and take a gamble.
I'll try citizens advice and ACAS on Monday, unless anyone can recommend a good legal specialist?

Perhaps trade union isn't the best way to go. To be honest, I have always been anti-trade union. I started out working for a large engineering firm (part of the IMI empire) and watched the union drive it into the ground. I could tell you some crazy storys. :-(

I'll gladly share the full story of my circumstances once this is all resolved.
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YamFazFan

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #11 on: 04 November 2018, 02:27:22 PM »
Perhaps trade union isn't the best way to go. To be honest, I have always been anti-trade union. I started out working for a large engineering firm (part of the IMI empire) and watched the union drive it into the ground. I could tell you some crazy storys. :-(


I'd like to hear them please :)
On a similar theme you often hear people saying that the British bike and car industry was destroyed by the union disputes in the 1970's. Obviously that's nonsense.
I guess it didn't help matters, but woefully poor management had sealed their fate long before then.






 
« Last Edit: 05 November 2018, 12:21:48 AM by YamFazFan »
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slimwilly

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #12 on: 18 November 2018, 08:19:49 AM »
Well I am an employer and I would sack you for questioning your redundancy
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steve 10562cc

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #13 on: 18 November 2018, 09:25:17 AM »

Not sure how old you are yamfazfun but I remember the 70s very well, had to fight through a picket line of flying pickets during the building strike to go to work it wasn't nice people got hurt and I worked for a small builders  12 tradesmen, 3 labourers and 3 apprentices that payed well and looked after their people when sick, injured family problems,etc.  Back  to red Robbo and British Leyland some one only had to fart out of tune and they were out. and that wasn't the only union that did that. No secret ballots,  Intimidation by union thugs/bully boys. Secret ballots stopped most of that. 
Just for the record guys I was a union member for 34 years nothing to do with building trade and voted onto my local union committee, and held that position for 5years till I transferred to another part of the country, so I'm no management lacky   
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 09:32:50 AM by steve 10562cc »

YamFazFan

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #14 on: 18 November 2018, 10:16:00 AM »
Not disputing any of that. I was refering to the decline and fall of the industry as a whole not peoples individual experiences of the time.

Are you saying that it was the trade unions that destroyed the British motorbike and car industry and it was nothing to do with the management?.

Ie: The management was fine, but it was the unions that sabotaged it all?.
« Last Edit: 18 November 2018, 10:36:17 AM by YamFazFan »
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YamFazFan

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VNA

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #16 on: 18 November 2018, 10:51:03 AM »
 
Quote
Are you saying that it was the trade unions that destroyed the British motorbike and car industry and it was nothing to do with the management?

That’s the narrative that we are fed.  Yet we still have car manufacturing in the UK, in fact it’s one of our most import sectors.  The workforce hasn’t really changed, and they are still unionised but the management definitely is different.


There’s an old saying – there’s no such thing as poor industrial relations, only bad management.
 

steve 10562cc

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Re: Where to find employment legal advice?
« Reply #17 on: 18 November 2018, 03:05:23 PM »
No Yamfaz both the bike industry and the car industry both  unions and management were equal partners in the decline of both. the bike industry sticking to bike, and engine designs that had changed little or not at all for 20/30 years. The British bike manufactures were caught with there pants down by the jap bike producers or we wouldn't be ridding FZs maybe something similar but with a BSA NORTON ARIEL on them .  The 1970s mass production car industry built cars that were rusting as you drove them off the forecourt new, were unreliable in some cases rusted quicker than a Datsun (Nissen for you youngsters) and they fell to bits as you looked at them. The unions calling strikes often for no good reason helped neither industry.