Date: 28-03-24  Time: 13:43 pm

Author Topic: Fazer 600 not starting  (Read 4617 times)

alex9576

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Fazer 600 not starting
« on: 19 December 2017, 10:29:18 pm »
Bit of a strange one this, I’ve bought my friends fazer 600 that’s been sitting for about 8 years at the back of his garage, it was his day rider for about 2 years, he serviced it and changed the spark the bike then refused to start its sat in the garage ever since.
Its partially striped tank off, air filters removed, I’ve tried to start it on a strong car battery its turns over fine has a good spark and fuel but won’t start, it has compression you can hear it, it just won’t start even with easy start and another set of plugs.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Alex 

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #1 on: 19 December 2017, 10:35:12 pm »
If it was running before he changed the plugs and you have fuel and sparks are you sure he put the plug leads back on the correct plugs?
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alex9576

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #2 on: 19 December 2017, 10:49:19 pm »
Hi
the plugs are marked 1 to 4 so I'm guessing there correct, after trying to start it for a wile the plugs are wet with fuel I've also tried easy start straight into the carbs.
I'm working away from home at the minuet but I'm back for Christmas ill double check the ht leads then i get home.

thank you for your advice
alex

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #3 on: 20 December 2017, 12:45:37 am »
yeah I'd agree if the plugs were done and then it stopped running check the leads are on in the correct order first. if it's been parked for 8 years you can be fairly sure the carbs need to be cleaned and possibly the tank too. replacing the fuel filter would also be a good idea. also check the air filter and air box as there could be a nest in there :lol did you try to start it with the old petrol or did you put some fresh stuff in? an oil and filter change would be a good idea. also have a close look at the brake lines as they could be dodgy. it probably needs new tyres too
« Last Edit: 20 December 2017, 12:47:30 am by His Dudeness »

HarryHornby

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #4 on: 20 December 2017, 06:34:07 am »
Double check the fuel tap under the tank is on, they may have turned it off before laying her up.
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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #5 on: 20 December 2017, 06:42:36 am »
Check for spark at plugs , if your getting damp plugs you know the fuels getting through , my monies on electrics but as said , new fuel , filters and clean will help , with known history its almost certainly going to be something simple...good luck  :thumbup
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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #6 on: 20 December 2017, 07:28:01 am »
I assume you are using fresh petrol and not the 8 year old stuff? A few years ago I was helping a mate to recommission a bike that has been stood for ages. Had fuel, spark and carbs clean. It was only when we poured a bit of old petrol on the floor and tried to light it that we realised it was knackered. Drained old petrol, filled her up with new and away it went.

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #7 on: 20 December 2017, 11:18:03 am »
Assuming what you say is correct and it was working fine until he only changed the spark plugs then I would be looking at the ignition circuit.

Are the plugs connected to the leads properly?
Are the leads connected to the correct cylinders? (1 on the left, 4 on the right with 2&3 supplied from the same coil pack) - This will cause them to spark in the wrong order
Did the coil packs get disconnected and re-connected back to front? This will cause them to spark in the wrong order too.


Given the bike has sat for a long time, the carbs will be full of shite. They will need a clean and you will need fresh fuel but try spraying some easy-start in the intake and see if it fires up. That will prove your ignition circuit.
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alex9576

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #8 on: 20 December 2017, 08:23:31 pm »
I'm almost convinced its the ht leads, now that i think about when turning over its popping and trying to start like the timings out badly it can only be the leads I've fed the carbs with clean fuel and squirted it into the carb intakes.
I'm intending to strip and rebuild the bike completely so just need to get it started and running so i know the engines and box are sound, ill try again at the weekend and post my findings.
thanks
alex

alex9576

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #9 on: 26 December 2017, 09:39:19 pm »
Hi all, hope you had a good Christmas, I had another crack at the fazer, all the leads and coil wiring looked ok i tried switching them around and the bike backfired through the carbs and banged and popped in the exhaust.
I double checked the spark and its still strong at all the plug leads, I cleaned the plugs and dried them squirted fuel into the bores still nothing just spins over and discreetly burps every now and then.
I've found a basic manual online with a rough wiring diagram Ill have a check through it and see if i can see a simple solution.
Anyone got any ideas please let me kno
thank you


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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #10 on: 27 December 2017, 12:52:27 am »
have you tried using jump leads connected to a running car - it might sound odd but cars have a higher cranking amps and turn the engine over faster - yes it sounds odd but i have had bikes that failed to fire and then once battery died i hooked them up to a car and they fired
you will know what i mean if you have tried this - but be a little wiser with the starter as a higher amp means more power in the starter and therefore more heat blah blah blah etc etc etc
this will show you if most things are working correctly and start to point you in the right direction


secondly when you said had carbs cleaned do you mean CLEANED CLEANED or just old fuel taken out - were all your jets cleaned out - did you give all the orifices a spray with carb cleaner left to sit and later sprayed again


-personaly im thinking your jets are blocked but it all depends on how cleaned they were (the pops and bangs are the easy start and fuel your putting in the cylinders im guessing you are using something like easy start as you said sprayed into the carbs)

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #11 on: 27 December 2017, 06:34:20 am »
have you tried using jump leads connected to a running car - it might sound odd but cars have a higher cranking amps and turn the engine over faster - yes it sounds odd but i have had bikes that failed to fire and then once battery died i hooked them up to a car and they fired
you will know what i mean if you have tried this - but be a little wiser with the starter as a higher amp means more power in the starter and therefore more heat blah blah blah etc etc etc
this will show you if most things are working correctly and start to point you in the right direction


secondly when you said had carbs cleaned do you mean CLEANED CLEANED or just old fuel taken out - were all your jets cleaned out - did you give all the orifices a spray with carb cleaner left to sit and later sprayed again


-personaly im thinking your jets are blocked but it all depends on how cleaned they were (the pops and bangs are the easy start and fuel your putting in the cylinders im guessing you are using something like easy start as you said sprayed into the carbs)


I reckon the jets are seized or stuck in place from sitting around for so many years.
It happened with my bike for months and i was using it 5 days a week, so 8 years of doing nothing is going to cause havoc.
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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #12 on: 27 December 2017, 11:49:55 am »
Pilot jets I reckon! They deal with your idle/low revs work so if electrics are fine then that's a good bet.  Get the carbs outathere and cleany clean clean! :)

Keep us updated, love to know how you get on!

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #13 on: 27 December 2017, 12:15:26 pm »
ooh alex you said you found a basic manual online - have a look in the downloads section of the forum
all the manuals are there wiring diagrams and all

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #14 on: 27 December 2017, 02:46:19 pm »
If you have a good spark and the engine is just coughing and backfiring then the carbs need a damn good clean.
If it's not a job you want to do then just take them off and send them to someone who can put them through an ultra-sonic cleaner for you.

alex9576

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #15 on: 27 December 2017, 07:10:31 pm »
Thanks for the replies chaps, i been running it on a big car battery so its spinning over like a monster, I had another look today I checked the plug gaps there new but you never know:) the coil resistance was 2.7 across the coil connectors on both coils the manual suggests it should be between 1.8 & 2.53 and across the ht leads it was 38.4 and 37.5 the manual suggests 12 to 18 but the manuals suggested values are at 20'c and it was probably about 1'c in the garage today ill need to remove the coils and leave them in the house over night for a more accurate test, could it be the Ignitor unit under the seat I've seen these completely fail in the past and occasionally fail when they get hot but would it put the spark timing out?
I would of thought if i squirt fresh fuel into the bore it should fire a couple of times at least even if the carbs are gummed up, Ill have a look at the download section and see if there's a better manual, I cant help think I'm missing something simple i had a chat to the friend i bought it from he described the same symptoms, it was running fine 45 minutes before he changed the oil, filters and plugs then nothing!

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #16 on: 27 December 2017, 07:49:12 pm »
If you've got good spark the coils, leads and plugs should be ok. You could check if the wires going to the primary side of coils are mixed up. If the wires for the left coil are on the right one it might be firing the wrong coils are the wrong time. Did you check that the air box is clear?

Hugh Mungus

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #17 on: 27 December 2017, 08:09:35 pm »
it was running fine 45 minutes before he changed the oil, filters and plugs then nothing!


I can't quite imagine what could have gone wrong except that he might have dislodged a wire...
Is the choke mechanism working properly (I'm not familiar with the 600 so I don't know if the choke is cable operated or not)


The other problem is that 8 years of being stood isn't going to help as the carbs will almost certainly need a clean.

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #18 on: 27 December 2017, 08:22:42 pm »
alex where abouts are you based (says nothing on profile)
there might be someone close by willing to have a look
its hard sometimes to get an idea of whats going on from a written description
- a county/region/city will do then those close by might DM with there location to find if your close buy


alex9576

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #19 on: 08 January 2018, 09:43:11 pm »
Hi All
I'm based in bishops stortford Hertfordshire, but i work away from home a lot at the minuet, however i think I've found the issue I invested in a bike friendly compression tester my car one wouldn't fit under the frame :( 3 bores were under 50psi and 1 was at 100... after squirting engine oil into the bores they all shot up over 150psi.
So I've filled the bores with WD40 and have left it for the week wile I'm working away for the week, hopefully it might help release the rings, ill try again next weekend.


Alex

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #20 on: 08 January 2018, 09:54:58 pm »
nice trick with the engine oil hopefully it will loosen off a ring if its stuck
as they all shot up it kind of points more at the rings than the valves which is where i would have instantly thought
might be concerned about a large amount of wd40 getting through the ring gaps and mixing with the oil
but im guessing it hasnt had an oil change in a while anyway so no problem there really

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Re: Fazer 600 not starting
« Reply #21 on: 10 January 2018, 08:03:27 am »
Hopefully I can get it started so i can check the gearbox just for piece of mind before it gets striped down, ill let you know how i get on. :)