Date: 29-03-24  Time: 14:39 pm

Author Topic: Starting/Running Issues  (Read 4650 times)

Kura

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Starting/Running Issues
« on: 06 December 2017, 05:41:04 pm »

Hi all, new member here o/ need your advice.

My Fazer600 "00 has been restricted at the carbs for a year now and I'm unsure if those are causing my problems. I've recently changed the spark plugs/carb rubbers/battery/fuel filter and cleaned out the old air filter with compressed air. It's ran fine up until Winter, the bike will start up when kept inside, but a few hours outdoors and I'm having to resort to bump starts to get going(with the old/new battery) I also have horrendous idling and bogging I've attempted to adjust idle mixtures but it doesn't make a difference. The bogging is really bad at low speeds/gears and there is a tonne of exhaust popping when downshifting no matter how often I try to adjust the mixture it doesn't help.


I appreciate all your input.
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bandit

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #1 on: 06 December 2017, 09:06:46 pm »
Check voltage of battery or charge it ,do you do short journeys?, as you have done the plugs & carb rubbers with no problems till now, check that your down pipes are in good condition no holes as I see by your pic you have the original ones fitted as this can cause popping/rough idle,bogging as air is being sucked in affecting fuel mixtures. As you have adjusted your mixtures carbs will need to be re balanced.     

darrsi

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #2 on: 06 December 2017, 09:14:51 pm »
You can't clean a dirty paper air filter with compressed air, it doesn't really work like that.
If you don't know the history of it, or you know it hasn't been changed for ages then it needs to be changed.
Add to the fact the bike is already restricted then airflow is even more important.
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Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #3 on: 06 December 2017, 09:46:35 pm »
The battery was fitted the other day, and yes short journeys It's been roughly 10 mile round trips daily to work don't get out much due to winter weather. Waiting on new air filter, pipes and filter shouldn't affect starting up though?
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bandit

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #4 on: 06 December 2017, 09:56:57 pm »
Was the battery new or used.

Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #5 on: 06 December 2017, 10:01:05 pm »
Brand new, it's a Yuasa YT12B-BS Powersport I doubt the battery is the issue, I could hear the engine wanting to fire but was really hesitant. Got it to Bump start on first attempt.
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Disorderlypunk

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #6 on: 06 December 2017, 10:05:58 pm »
was it definatly the engine you could hear turning or just the starter motor ???

Fazerider

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #7 on: 06 December 2017, 10:10:05 pm »
I was going to suggest changing the plug caps for NGK SD05F ones as the originals tend to break down and cause misfiring, but looking at your photo it seems rather non-standard… is that a coil-on-plug mod?

darrsi

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #8 on: 06 December 2017, 10:29:08 pm »
The battery was fitted the other day, and yes short journeys It's been roughly 10 mile round trips daily to work don't get out much due to winter weather. Waiting on new air filter, pipes and filter shouldn't affect starting up though?


These bikes run rich, if the air filter isn't breathing then of course it could affect starting.
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Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #9 on: 06 December 2017, 10:31:40 pm »
Definitely the engine turning and no mods that I'm aware of will double check. I think my main cause is the restriction plates being in too long and an aging air filter. I'm aged for my DAS in a month(hope my theory is still valid). Will fit a new air filter and if problem still persists I'll look over all the plugs/electrics and hoses once more before new year then wait till I pass my test and get the carbs balanced/cleaned once the plates come out. All this restriction nonsense is a pain.
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Disorderlypunk

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #10 on: 06 December 2017, 10:55:04 pm »
you did say earlier that you cleaned your air filter with compressed air
although it will look cleanish they never are as all the open cells fill with microscopic dirt that clings like a mutha and obstruct flow
always worth the £10 for a replacement if your in there (if you go K+N thats up to you but will set you back more)


looking at the pic i dont think thats a coilpack mod as the wire thickness still looks HT size - but they do look a bit different from a standard setup



« Last Edit: 06 December 2017, 10:56:47 pm by Disorderlypunk »

darrsi

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #11 on: 06 December 2017, 11:03:04 pm »
Just make sure you only do one thing at a time otherwise it can confuse matters.
And make a log of any changes you do for future reference.
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tommyardin

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #12 on: 06 December 2017, 11:58:28 pm »
Just make sure you only do one thing at a time otherwise it can confuse matters.
And make a log of any changes you do for future reference.


Two things, firstly those plug caps don't look standard, in fact I know they are not.



Secondly Darrsi is quite right about doing one thing at a time.


If you do four things at once and the bike runs fine you will not know what thing cured the problem, then you will not have learned anything for future reference, do one thing say filter then try the bike for a few miles and see if its made a difference, if not them move on to the next thing, I know it might mean removing the fuel tank for a second time but it only takes a few minutes.


You will learn something and if those same symptoms show there ugly head a couple of years down the line you will be equipped with the knowledge of how to rectify it.
 
I keep a log of all the work I have done on my Fazer and parts fitted, Dates & Mileage.


Reading through what I have just written sounds anal, but it does give me a full picture of the bikes history since i purchased it and it shows me when things need to be replaced.
« Last Edit: 07 December 2017, 12:02:16 am by tommyardin »

Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #13 on: 07 December 2017, 07:34:45 pm »
Cheers for the input, have a new air filter arriving Saturday and found a small hole/leak at base of the exhaust will get that fixed and not look at anything else until I've tried it with the new changes then I'll make a note of things/try one thing at a time. If all that fails I'll just have a mechanic look at it, I'm still a novice at the maintenance side but learning a tonne.
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Disorderlypunk

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #14 on: 07 December 2017, 08:16:52 pm »
when you say small hole at base of exhaust - do you have the factory exhaust on there and do you mean at the lowest/most forward part of the silencer - i think that one is meant to be there for drainage - i noticed that hole once i realized how fucked the insides were as i was getting a lot of escaping gasses through it

Fazerider

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #15 on: 07 December 2017, 08:24:28 pm »
Note that there is meant to be a drain hole at the bottom of the exhaust can. It’s there to drain condensation out.

Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #16 on: 07 December 2017, 10:07:49 pm »
Note that there is meant to be a drain hole at the bottom of the exhaust can. It’s there to drain condensation out.


I'm aware of the drain hole, this is a different hole I can see exhaust fumes firing out of it just as the base of the can itself
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Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #17 on: 07 December 2017, 10:11:04 pm »
when you say small hole at base of exhaust - do you have the factory exhaust on there and do you mean at the lowest/most forward part of the silencer - i think that one is meant to be there for drainage - i noticed that hole once i realized how fucked the insides were as i was getting a lot of escaping gasses through it


Hole is around there, and yes it's the factory exhaust.
« Last Edit: 07 December 2017, 10:12:00 pm by Kura »
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Fazerider

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #18 on: 07 December 2017, 10:42:16 pm »

(Apologies Disorderlypunk, I didn’t notice you’d already made the point about the drain hole.)


The innards of the silencer are mild steel and rot through at the base so the gases can blow out of the gap around the pipe where it enters the stainless can. You may be able to bodge it by squishing in as much high temperature silicone sealant as possible. I got a couple of extra years life out of mine that way.
Having said that, I doubt it’s the cause of your running issue which sounds much more like an electrical problem to me.

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #19 on: 07 December 2017, 10:46:49 pm »
why did i not think to look at the pic that stares me in the face everytime i look at this post lol
yeah that is a hole hole not a drain hole - assuming you put the red circle in the right place and not trying to mess with our heads
bit of gun gum should solve a little problem there - no point paying a guy to weld up a hole on an exhaust that is hitting the end of its life
but as fazerider just pointed out - it aint your running issue as i have run with no pipe at all without a problem
(apart from deafness - I SAID APART FROM DEAFNESS)

Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #20 on: 08 December 2017, 12:31:38 pm »

(Apologies Disorderlypunk, I didn’t notice you’d already made the point about the drain hole.)


The innards of the silencer are mild steel and rot through at the base so the gases can blow out of the gap around the pipe where it enters the stainless can. You may be able to bodge it by squishing in as much high temperature silicone sealant as possible. I got a couple of extra years life out of mine that way.
Having said that, I doubt it’s the cause of your running issue which sounds much more like an electrical problem to me.


What should I look at electrically, like the ECU and fuses? The bike does want to start though indoors, but is very hesitant in the cold like it's stalling and putting out a couple of rpm. Wouldn't an electrical fault prevent bump starts too?
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darrsi

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #21 on: 08 December 2017, 12:45:37 pm »

(Apologies Disorderlypunk, I didn’t notice you’d already made the point about the drain hole.)


The innards of the silencer are mild steel and rot through at the base so the gases can blow out of the gap around the pipe where it enters the stainless can. You may be able to bodge it by squishing in as much high temperature silicone sealant as possible. I got a couple of extra years life out of mine that way.
Having said that, I doubt it’s the cause of your running issue which sounds much more like an electrical problem to me.


What should I look at electrically, like the ECU and fuses? The bike does want to start though indoors, but is very hesitant in the cold like it's stalling and putting out a couple of rpm. Wouldn't an electrical fault prevent bump starts too?

If you can't wait until tomorrow, and you have time on your hands, why not remove the air filter and see if it all springs to life?
I would adjust the carb screws back to standard settings first.
Don't ride without it in as you will probably cause further issues.

Worth checking the TPS and seeing if that's all sweet and in the correct position as well if you're looking for electrical issues, 'cos a faulty unit can play havoc.
As mentioned before, you need to do things one at a time, and right now I would suggest not doing anything until the new air filter is in, 'cos that could be the heart of the problem.
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Kura

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #22 on: 08 December 2017, 12:57:17 pm »
Well my new filter arrives tomorrow and I will fit that first see how things go before checking other things. I have a Haynes workshop manual so will reference that when checking the electrical stuff. You might be right about the air filter being the source, I bought a new one couple of weeks ago a DNA filter but didn't realise it was a high performance one something like 60% more air intake and with the bike being restricted it didn't like it too well lots of lurching and exhaust popping I then removed that and put the old air filter back in when I got a new battery a few days ago and that's when my starting/running problems came back the old battery was basically dead so that was the reason then, but with me having put the old air filter back in I've likely reintroduced the same problem. I changed plugs/carb rubbers and air filter all at once and it ran great but with the minor lurches and bad fuel/air ratio. Will take your advice on focusing 1 thing at a time.


*EDIT: It's a stock air filter I've bought this time
« Last Edit: 08 December 2017, 12:59:38 pm by Kura »
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darrsi

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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #23 on: 08 December 2017, 03:42:50 pm »
Well my new filter arrives tomorrow and I will fit that first see how things go before checking other things. I have a Haynes workshop manual so will reference that when checking the electrical stuff. You might be right about the air filter being the source, I bought a new one couple of weeks ago a DNA filter but didn't realise it was a high performance one something like 60% more air intake and with the bike being restricted it didn't like it too well lots of lurching and exhaust popping I then removed that and put the old air filter back in when I got a new battery a few days ago and that's when my starting/running problems came back the old battery was basically dead so that was the reason then, but with me having put the old air filter back in I've likely reintroduced the same problem. I changed plugs/carb rubbers and air filter all at once and it ran great but with the minor lurches and bad fuel/air ratio. Will take your advice on focusing 1 thing at a time.


*EDIT: It's a stock air filter I've bought this time

Once the filter is in place I would recommend you put the carb screws back to standard, I believe they're 2.5 turns out.
You need to start in the right place otherwise you'll get into a bit of a mess.
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Re: Starting/Running Issues
« Reply #24 on: 08 December 2017, 09:25:37 pm »
Always best to try the cheapest options first, you say you have new spark plugs, I'm willing to bet it's the spark plug caps, by the way this sorted my bike out which was bad, and worse when it had rained. It now runs sweet.