Date: 28-03-24  Time: 10:45 am

Author Topic: Tyre question  (Read 14668 times)

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #25 on: 30 November 2017, 01:31:05 pm »
Love the pr4 but for the dry weather the pp3 ate far superior..


It’s the shit weather that i want the stability and full confidence for though, and in fairness we do have a lot of shit weather.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #26 on: 30 November 2017, 11:34:00 pm »
True, I've switched back to the pr4 for the run up to Christmas then onto the storm 3d xm then the conti motion then back to the pp3 in April.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #27 on: 02 December 2017, 10:51:37 am »
I don't think I have ever had a matching set front and back although have always been Bridgstones I think I may have a matching set now but honestly couldn't say without looking might be batalx 023s. I do fancy a matching set of pp3 after reading up on them, my rear is nearer to be replaced than the front but - an open question, how much benefit would I gain by loosing a bit of money mileage if I change the front early so I have a matching set of pp3s. Also there are deals on cheaper sets rather than buying separate isn't there. 
Just had a thought that I may even have an excuse to buy a new front based on age alone, but the bike is kept garaged out of the sun - but then again I only ride in the sun . 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #28 on: 02 December 2017, 01:23:05 pm »
I don't think I have ever had a matching set front and back although have always been Bridgstones I think I may have a matching set now but honestly couldn't say without looking might be batalx 023s. I do fancy a matching set of pp3 after reading up on them, my rear is nearer to be replaced than the front but - an open question, how much benefit would I gain by loosing a bit of money mileage if I change the front early so I have a matching set of pp3s. Also there are deals on cheaper sets rather than buying separate isn't there. 
Just had a thought that I may even have an excuse to buy a new front based on age alone, but the bike is kept garaged out of the sun - but then again I only ride in the sun .


Fronts last longer than rears anyway, so if it's still in good nick i'd personally leave it alone and change it when necessary.
Or are you just looking for an excuse?  :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #29 on: 02 December 2017, 04:16:54 pm »
I have had Bridgestones on the fZS600 ever since i bought it, Battlax 021F & 021R.


Very happy with the back, but, not so sure about the front, the front tyre has feathered on the outside edges and have noticed it can be very slightly twitchy even in the dry (I don't do wet) when powering out of bends.


I have a replacement to go on but will leave it until nearer Springtime, the replacement is a Bridgestone T30 Evo for the front.


I am very happy with the 021R on the ass-end it has never given me an arse clenching moment but the front has caused a little heart burn a couple of times, not that it has ever been a problem really, but it just stepping out 5 or 10mm on a fast bend is enough, plus the feathering is a bit concerning.


I have heard some great things about The Bridgestone T30 Evo apparently 'Ron Haslam'  uses them on all his bikes at his racing school.
If they are good enough for R............  :rolleyes

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #30 on: 02 December 2017, 05:32:07 pm »
I have had Bridgestones on the fZS600 ever since i bought it, Battlax 021F & 021R.


Very happy with the back, but, not so sure about the front, the front tyre has feathered on the outside edges and have noticed it can be very slightly twitchy even in the dry (I don't do wet) when powering out of bends.

I am very happy with the 021R on the ass-end it has never given me an arse clenching moment but the front has caused a little heart burn a couple of times, not that it has ever been a problem really, but it just stepping out 5 or 10mm on a fast bend is enough, plus the feathering is a bit concerning.
What suspension changes have you made since putting these tires on?
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #31 on: 02 December 2017, 05:55:35 pm »
Complete change front and rear, rear shocker Nitron, front Ohlins Linears and YSS emus, but have to say its much better now than it was before the upgrades were done, so the upgrades are not responsible in any way.
The original 021F that was on the bike when I got it was feathered and that was the reason I changed it, but the new one has done the same at 3,500 clicks, 2/3rds use with the old suspension set up 1/3rd with the new.
I have been reading about the 021 on the front and lots complain that they feather, some also say that with the T30 Evo on the feathering has stopped.


So I will give it a go in the springtime and let cha know.    :thumbup

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #32 on: 02 December 2017, 07:35:10 pm »
Aah, I think you misunderstood.
You can spend 50 grand on suspension mods but they still have to be tuned to suit weather conditions and tires.
I have a list of suspension changes that my set up requires for different tires (brand and model) under different weather conditions (temperature and precipitation).
As an example pr4s require
Rear > 23mm pre load, 8 clicks compression, 7 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load, 10wt oil with 130mm air gap,
2.5 turns compression and 1.5 turns rebound.

But the pp3s (same manufacturer) having such a vastly different side wall construction require.
Rear > 24mm pre load, 10 clicks compression, 8 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load,  10wt oil with 135mm air gap, 2.125 turns compression and 1.25 turns rebound.

All in dry conditions and depending on weather conditions will get changed accordingly even between going to and coming home from work.
And don't forget, ride height can also be adjusted as the rear tire wears to slow the process, maintain weight distribution and prevent shear tearing on the front as it becomes over worked due to the changing weight distribution.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #33 on: 02 December 2017, 08:00:39 pm »
Aah, I think you misunderstood.
You can spend 50 grand on suspension mods but they still have to be tuned to suit weather conditions and tires.
I have a list of suspension changes that my set up requires for different tires (brand and model) under different weather conditions (temperature and precipitation).
As an example pr4s require
Rear > 23mm pre load, 8 clicks compression, 7 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load, 10wt oil with 130mm air gap,
2.5 turns compression and 1.5 turns rebound.

But the pp3s (same manufacturer) having such a vastly different side wall construction require.
Rear > 24mm pre load, 10 clicks compression, 8 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load,  10wt oil with 135mm air gap, 2.125 turns compression and 1.25 turns rebound.

All in dry conditions and depending on weather conditions will get changed accordingly even between going to and coming home from work.
And don't forget, ride height can also be adjusted as the rear tire wears to slow the process, maintain weight distribution and prevent shear tearing on the front as it becomes over worked due to the changing weight distribution.
:eek :eek :eek :eek its quicker to walk
Never felt the need to fiddle, maybe - 10 stone at a push (with the UKs finest Sunday dinner onboard ) is just not enough to warrant it. Mind you I only need 1 set up ----dry 
« Last Edit: 02 December 2017, 08:02:26 pm by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

agricola

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,042
  • Man on a mission
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 S2 07-09
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #34 on: 02 December 2017, 08:23:26 pm »
Aah, I think you misunderstood.
You can spend 50 grand on suspension mods but they still have to be tuned to suit weather conditions and tires.
I have a list of suspension changes that my set up requires for different tires (brand and model) under different weather conditions (temperature and precipitation).
As an example pr4s require
Rear > 23mm pre load, 8 clicks compression, 7 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load, 10wt oil with 130mm air gap,
2.5 turns compression and 1.5 turns rebound.

But the pp3s (same manufacturer) having such a vastly different side wall construction require.
Rear > 24mm pre load, 10 clicks compression, 8 clicks rebound.





Front > 4 turns pre load,  10wt oil with 135mm air gap, 2.125 turns compression and 1.25 turns rebound.

All in dry conditions and depending on weather conditions will get changed accordingly even between going to and coming home from work.
And don't forget, ride height can also be adjusted as the rear tire wears to slow the process, maintain weight distribution and prevent shear tearing on the front as it becomes over worked due to the changing weight distribution.


Wow. Ive ragged my around donington, ridden to work in heatwaves, frost, pouring rain, howling gales, and with two different manufactures tyres on the bike, and never adjusted. I think id give up biking rather than faff every time i got the bikes out :)

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #35 on: 02 December 2017, 08:38:59 pm »
For me it's not a faff. The changes can be made while the bike is warming up. You'd only be stood waiting anyway.
I spent 20 years racing so to me this is just what you do. I wouldn't ride without wearing safety gear (how many other people do you see wearing a leatt brace)  and I wouldn't ride without working this stuff out either.
It's part of the fun of riding.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #36 on: 02 December 2017, 09:26:00 pm »
Sorry  :o - each to their own -- I am ATGATT but had to google leatt brace ( i might get one ) but in the winter with 3 layers of thermal and a leather jaket and a high vis and buff neck scarf its difficult enough to look behind as it is.
Respect 20 years racing and yes I do agree its all part of the fun and if I am honest I too enjoy the prep and faff of it all but sometimes by the time I am ready to go its gone cloudy and looking a little bit iffy.
« Last Edit: 02 December 2017, 09:27:02 pm by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #37 on: 02 December 2017, 09:48:30 pm »
Aah, I think you misunderstood.
You can spend 50 grand on suspension mods but they still have to be tuned to suit weather conditions and tires.
I have a list of suspension changes that my set up requires for different tires (brand and model) under different weather conditions (temperature and precipitation).
As an example pr4s require
Rear > 23mm pre load, 8 clicks compression, 7 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load, 10wt oil with 130mm air gap,
2.5 turns compression and 1.5 turns rebound.

But the pp3s (same manufacturer) having such a vastly different side wall construction require.
Rear > 24mm pre load, 10 clicks compression, 8 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load,  10wt oil with 135mm air gap, 2.125 turns compression and 1.25 turns rebound.

All in dry conditions and depending on weather conditions will get changed accordingly even between going to and coming home from work.
And don't forget, ride height can also be adjusted as the rear tire wears to slow the process, maintain weight distribution and prevent shear tearing on the front as it becomes over worked due to the changing weight distribution.
:eek :eek :eek :eek its quicker to walk
Never felt the need to fiddle, maybe - 10 stone at a push (with the UKs finest Sunday dinner onboard ) is just not enough to warrant it. Mind you I only need 1 set up ----dry


I have quoted Sharpie but could just have easily quoted Agricola.
I have set my sags
Static Front         25 mm
Static Rear         16 mm
Rider Sag Front   41 mm
Rider Sag Rear    37 mm


the Nitron R1 was built and set up for my riding weight at the factory, but I have softened the rebound by the smallest of margins as I have lost about 8 lbs in weight since the shock was built,.


The emulators were set up for my rider weight and the fork oil weight fine tuned to give me the best rebound I could get even hard powering out of fast bumpy bends the front tyre stays in firm contact with the road (Apart from the odd little twitch because of feathered tyre)  The Front Fork Emulators adjustment take care of compression.
I love the way the bike rides.
Like Sharpie the 'Racing Snake' I don't do wet weather. so the suspension is let at its optimal setting for me to ride in the dry when the weather is warm.

I enjoy blasting about on the bike, but, I am no racer.

I found that out in the mid seventies when I helped run-in a Morgo Bonneville at Brands Hatch one Wedneday afternoon (Practice Day) dropping down into South Bank thinking I was King of Brands doing probably about 80mph when a 3 pot 2T Kwacker passed between me and the checker kerbs on the right hand side of the track, the bike went through a 3 foot gap between me and the kerbs doing about 30 mph more that I was doing, I did not see it or hear it until it was alongside that was when I realised racing was not for me, Back into the pit lane on the Start and Finish straight the end of that lap to relieve myself.

I rode hard on the road but the track is a completely different ballgame.
The King of Brands I was not, more like the Joker of Brands. My mate Nigel Warn went on to get a second at Oulton Park in Cheshire the following Saturday on the Morgo.     
 




celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #38 on: 02 December 2017, 09:57:17 pm »
No apologies necessary.
Most people would find braces inconvenient but I've used them or something similar for 30 years.
As for iffy weather,  you wouldn't believe how that makes me feel, I love riding in the rain, especially during/just after a torrential downpour (a couple of hours) the roads are so clean and grippy under the water.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #39 on: 02 December 2017, 10:00:57 pm »
I have had Bridgestones on the fZS600 ever since i bought it, Battlax 021F & 021R.


Very happy with the back, but, not so sure about the front, the front tyre has feathered on the outside edges and have noticed it can be very slightly twitchy even in the dry (I don't do wet) when powering out of bends.


I have a replacement to go on but will leave it until nearer Springtime, the replacement is a Bridgestone T30 Evo for the front.


I am very happy with the 021R on the ass-end it has never given me an arse clenching moment but the front has caused a little heart burn a couple of times, not that it has ever been a problem really, but it just stepping out 5 or 10mm on a fast bend is enough, plus the feathering is a bit concerning.


I have heard some great things about The Bridgestone T30 Evo apparently 'Ron Haslam'  uses them on all his bikes at his racing school.
If they are good enough for R............  :rolleyes


Can only imagine the T30 would be nice and sticky on the front, the rear i just removed served me well, but i have to say even after one week the PR4 on the rear has seriously impressed me with its grip, which is exactly what i want.
Early days yet as well, it should get even better once scrubbed in.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #40 on: 02 December 2017, 10:42:21 pm »
Aah, I think you misunderstood.
You can spend 50 grand on suspension mods but they still have to be tuned to suit weather conditions and tires.
I have a list of suspension changes that my set up requires for different tires (brand and model) under different weather conditions (temperature and precipitation).
As an example pr4s require
Rear > 23mm pre load, 8 clicks compression, 7 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load, 10wt oil with 130mm air gap,
2.5 turns compression and 1.5 turns rebound.

But the pp3s (same manufacturer) having such a vastly different side wall construction require.
Rear > 24mm pre load, 10 clicks compression, 8 clicks rebound.
Front > 4 turns pre load,  10wt oil with 135mm air gap, 2.125 turns compression and 1.25 turns rebound.

All in dry conditions and depending on weather conditions will get changed accordingly even between going to and coming home from work.
And don't forget, ride height can also be adjusted as the rear tire wears to slow the process, maintain weight distribution and prevent shear tearing on the front as it becomes over worked due to the changing weight distribution.
:eek :eek :eek :eek its quicker to walk
Never felt the need to fiddle, maybe - 10 stone at a push (with the UKs finest Sunday dinner onboard ) is just not enough to warrant it. Mind you I only need 1 set up ----dry


 :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

vinnyb

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 663
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #41 on: 03 December 2017, 08:12:55 pm »
 Hi, sorry to kind of hijack the thread, but I think it's kind of relevant, I've got Dunlop D209 Qualifiers fitted, they're virtually new and I haven't had any issues with them so far but I haven't ridden in the wet yet and I'm a bit nervous about the first time I get caught out because I've read a few reviews saying that they're scary in the rain, has anyone here tried them? if so what did/do you think to them

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #42 on: 03 December 2017, 09:42:43 pm »
They will be fine,  not as good as the PR 3 and 4 in the cold wet as they are very slow to heat up, once you are aware of that then you should be fine.

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #43 on: 03 December 2017, 10:26:34 pm »
Look out for lack of grip on the edges of the tyre in the rain. There is a lot of rubber there and not much in the way of sipes to disperse the water.

Unlike the PR4 which has lots of sipes and grooves.





It's the reason I change from PP3 GP to PR4 GT when the weather starts to get wet.
I've put the PP3 GP back on for the coming week as it looks like it's going to be mostly dry.
Think I'll have to dispose of them after this use though as they have got too many heat cycles on them and most of the oil has leached over the summer cycles.




(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

vinnyb

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 663
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #44 on: 03 December 2017, 11:28:05 pm »
 Thanks for the feedback, I don't ride through the winter nowadays, I did 7 or 8 when I first started riding and decided I didn't like it but I have decided not to hibernate the bike this year, so I may get to ride it on dry, mild, cloudy days. I'll make sure I warm them up before I do my version of going for it in the dry and be careful in the wet until I get a feel for them. I don't entirely trust online customer reviews, some people will badmouth anything if they have a keyboard in front of them but I trust you guys to be honest. :thumbup
« Last Edit: 06 December 2017, 09:52:35 pm by vinnyb »

Grahamm

  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,656
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 04-06
    • View Profile
    • Affordable Leather Products
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #45 on: 05 December 2017, 11:31:21 pm »
Hi, sorry to kind of hijack the thread, but I think it's kind of relevant, I've got Dunlop D209 Qualifiers fitted, they're virtually new and I haven't had any issues with them so far but I haven't ridden in the wet yet and I'm a bit nervous about the first time I get caught out because I've read a few reviews saying that they're scary in the rain, has anyone here tried them? if so what did/do you think to them

Following on from this hijack (sorry!) I'd appreciate if anyone could give me some advice:

Twice in my life I've had a front wheel slide out on me, once on a bicycle (I think I may have run over a crisp packet whilst turning a corner in the wet) and once on a moped (again in the wet, but for no reason that I could find, other than maybe just crap cheap tyres!)

As such, I'm always extremely careful on roundabouts and corners in wet weather (virtually tip-toeing around them sometimes) because, even though I've got very good reactions, in both of the above examples there was *nothing* I could do, literally it was slip -> bang :(

I've had the occasional twitch on the rear from putting on a bit too much throttle when leant over in the wet, however I'm much more worried about having the front go out on me again.

So is it more likely to a) have the rear go (potential lowside) which I have a chance of dealing with or b) for the front to slip and have no chance to do anything about it?

Does anyone have any recommendations for good (and safe) cornering in the wet?

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #46 on: 06 December 2017, 12:52:38 am »
This is exactly what I've been trying to get at previously.
It doesn't matter how much you spend on tyres, if your suspension and chassis aren't set up correctly you'll always have the same problems.
Where are you based? If it's not too far away from me (within 150 miles)  we could go out for a ride and have a look at your technique and set up if you want to.
The weather is supposed to be particularly bad this weekend. 😎
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!

Hugh Mungus

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #47 on: 06 December 2017, 04:02:16 am »

I've been happy with PR4's so when these one's wear out I shall more than likely get the same again.

For me it's not a faff. The changes can be made while the bike is warming up. You'd only be stood waiting anyway.
I spent 20 years racing so to me this is just what you do.


You are so used to doing this that it is 2nd nature.


I like to ride fast but not as fast as others. I set my suspension probably once a year and it tends to be set slightly soft because that's how I like it.

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #48 on: 06 December 2017, 08:11:25 pm »
I don't think I have ever had a matching set front and back although have always been Bridgstones I think I may have a matching set now but honestly couldn't say without looking might be batalx 023s. I do fancy a matching set of pp3 after reading up on them, my rear is nearer to be replaced than the front but - an open question, how much benefit would I gain by loosing a bit of money mileage if I change the front early so I have a matching set of pp3s. Also there are deals on cheaper sets rather than buying separate isn't there. 
Just had a thought that I may even have an excuse to buy a new front based on age alone, but the bike is kept garaged out of the sun - but then again I only ride in the sun .


Fronts last longer than rears anyway, so if it's still in good nick i'd personally leave it alone and change it when necessary.
Or are you just looking for an excuse?  :lol
Excuse wise I need to do the back before the MOT in the spring, the front has another two years of my low yearly mileage BUT it has a manufacture of March 2010 and was fitted April 2011 so next spring it will be 8 years old so maybe I can use that as an excuse to replace it, the back has December 08 and was fitted May 09.

If the pp3s are softer and wear quicker then that is fine with me as I run out of time before tread.
« Last Edit: 06 December 2017, 08:12:13 pm by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

celticbiker

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • Main bike:
      Fazer8
    • View Profile
Re: Tyre question
« Reply #49 on: 06 December 2017, 08:27:28 pm »
Pp3s actually last really well, I managed to get the same out of them as I do from the pr4.
(\__/) This is bunny. Copy and paste
(x'.'x) bunny onto your page to help
(")-(") him gain world domination!