Date: 28-03-24  Time: 20:14 pm

Author Topic: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?  (Read 4622 times)

Woody78

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Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« on: 21 September 2017, 11:22:13 am »
Hello,


I'm hoping to buy my first fazer but I'm worried about some rust on the exhaust. Can anyone offer any advice? It is from a dealer and I get a 30 day warranty. I have (hopefully) included the pictures


Really appreciate any views, thanks.


Woody

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2017, 11:36:06 am »
I would say almost certainly that the collector box area is rusted through - underneath the bike where the 4 pipes join, I have a 98 that does not see rain and my downpipes are nowhere near the state of yours and yet I still have holes in the collector area  - see here http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,22250.msg257939.html#msg257939

The next problem you will have is when you cone to change the exhaust because the engine studs will be so badly rusted that when you come to remove the exhaust they will snap. -searc on here for snapped studs.
How much for the bike - you maybe better off finding a better example
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

F4celess

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2017, 11:38:49 am »
Check if the Exhaust is blowing? Not much is likely to change in 30 days. :) But you know that's on its way out (perhaps negotiate it as a factor on the bike price).

New set of Headers will set you back £150 or £190 (Black Widow vs Delkevic).
EDIT: That's new prices above. Obviously you could bag a bargain on these Parts 2nd hand instead (ebay).
« Last Edit: 21 September 2017, 11:54:34 am by F4celess »

Robbie8666

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #3 on: 21 September 2017, 11:44:57 am »
just looking at the pictures I'm surprised that the dealer hasn't even bothered to clean the bike in anyway.. suggests he has taken it in as a PX and just wants a quick turn around..
what price is he asking, mileage etc
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Woody78

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #4 on: 21 September 2017, 11:59:19 am »
Hi I'm paying £1200 and the mileage is 22000. I guess I was just looking at the mileage as a indicator.

F4celess

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #5 on: 21 September 2017, 12:07:43 pm »
I will actually be selling my Fazer (99) complete Exhaust system within the next few weeks, if interested? It's in Black (standard clean Headers + very clean Yamaha Silencer with no dings). If you do pickup this bike, give me a shout and we could agree on a deal for the lot. I could even drop it off, if you are close enough. :)

Only selling as I'm going to be putting a new system on mine/different Silencer. Apologies for the obvious plug.  :pc

tommyardin

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2017, 12:26:01 pm »
I'm assuming it is an early one as the fork leg bottoms are the clear lacquer type rather than the silver painted legs on the newer models.
The Headers (Down pipes) can be replaced at a reasonable cost as mentioned in an earlier reply, also as mentioned the eight manifold nuts can be real heart breakers, but, it is not impossible to do it as long as you are patient and use common sense, spray them liberally with a good release agent, 'Plus Gas Formula A Fast Release' is a good option. WD40 is no use for this what-so-ever, it is a silicon lube and moisture displacing fluid, its a penetrating fluid release agent you want.


Give all eight of them a good blast of the stuff morning and night preferably when the engine is warm (Not RED Hot) for a week before you try to undo them. also a good move is to give them a sharp tap using a drift (6 inch long bolt) and a hammer before you try to undo them, maybe the night before and give them another good drenching of release agent.
Go steady with the hammer and drift they only need a sharp tap, go too silly and you might mushroom the top of the stud stopping the nut from coming right off or bending the stud.
If the nuts feel really tight you can try apply some heat with a gas blow lamp with a fine flame and or try very gently to tighten the nut a bit and then rocking the nut undone and up again if you feel any movement, use caution.
If a stud or studs do break it is not the end of the world, but it is a pain in the arse, they can be removed with the engine still in place but it is not easy.
I had two break on my FZS when I replaced the headers because of pin holes in the collector, and like Sharpie, my pipes did not look anything like yours.


A bit of maintenance:
What I do is to remove one nut from each of the four header pipes every 6 months or so and Copper Slip them and tighten them back on then remove the other four nuts and do the same, careful tightening them don't over do it, the other thing I have done with my studs is to put a 10mm capped stainless steel nut on top of the standard type manifold pinch nut this acts as a lock nut and stops the manifold pinch nuts coming loose or off. This will take about 45 minutes to do and save so many many tears in the long run.
Oh! and the capped nuts look great to, If I ever buy a new bike I will do this Copper Slip treatment from the off.

darrsi

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2017, 01:13:29 pm »
Seems expensive to me for a 19 year old bike that hasn't been looked after.
If the exhaust is that bad then i'm guessing you're gonna unearth other things that will need doing too.
I'm certain you could get a bike in much better condition for similar money.
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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2017, 02:15:17 pm »
Walk away.

I had a similar issue when I bought mine and the exhaust studs made it a right pain in the arse job.
Broken, bruised, forgotten, sore,
too fucked up to care any more.

BBROWN1664

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2017, 02:17:02 pm »
From a dealer, it will come with a warranty but I would haggle in a new set of downpipes. That said, without giving them a good prod, they could be very solid still and all we are seeing is surface rust.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Dudeofrude

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #10 on: 21 September 2017, 02:19:29 pm »
As others have said that seems to be in very poor condition. I wouldn't expect to pay more than around £800 for something in that state.
Have you looked around elsewhere? Also is it s Fazer yiur after or just anything in your budget?
There are some very nice bikes about for £1200 Just depends where you are and what your wanting.

Here's an example from my area..

 https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/suzuki-gsxr-750-srad/1267152641

That's the kind of condition I would hope to find one in. Something that shows the owner has taken a bit of pride in it.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2017, 03:03:34 pm by Dudeofrude »

unfazed

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #11 on: 21 September 2017, 02:52:59 pm »
My advice is to ask the dealer to fit stainless downpipes and you will pay for the pipes, but not the labour. If he does not agree walk away unless he drops his price to around £800.
It is expensive with the pipes in that condition

vinnyb

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #12 on: 21 September 2017, 09:04:26 pm »

As others have said that seems to be in very poor condition. I wouldn't expect to pay more than around £800 for something in that state.
Have you looked around elsewhere? Also is it s Fazer yiur after or just anything in your budget?
There are some very nice bikes about for £1200 Just depends where you are and what your wanting.

Here's an example from my area..

 https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/suzuki-gsxr-750-srad/1267152641

That's the kind of condition I would hope to find one in. Something that shows the owner has taken a bit of pride in it.
Speaking personally, I wouldn't touch an Srad 750, with a 2nd rate paint job and scuffed frame with somebody else's barge pole, even if the fork seals weren't pissing oil (which they are) and it didn't have dodgy stickers all over it (which it has) It's obviously been lobbed at some point.

celticdog

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #13 on: 21 September 2017, 11:51:13 pm »
It's overpriced for what it is fella. Trade prices are higher than private but I think it's priced about £200 over trade price. Taking off exhaust headers is not a straight forward job either. Take your time you'll get what your after. I've got a 1999 that I use for commuting and there's not a month that passes without me having to do some maintenance /replacement /servicing work. It's all good fun.  :)
« Last Edit: 21 September 2017, 11:54:31 pm by celticdog »
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Dave48

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #14 on: 22 September 2017, 07:22:28 am »
From my own experience I suggest you walk well away from this one,since even if the dealer agrees to replace the entire exhaust system from headers to silencer,the degree of rust/corrosion in your pics suggests general lack of care/maintenance so if it was me purchasing the bike i would want to check every service item end to end & also be looking to replace those old original brake hoses for starters. I take it theres no service history/paperwork to back up?
This, my friend, is going to be a money pit & for this sort of money there are far better bikes available which would mean you get to spend your hard-earned on fuel rather than replacement parts/dealer time. Be patient & keep looking.


I recently saw a Fazer Thou in a local dealers shop which on the surface appeared well cared for BUT underneath the full fairing the exhaust header studs & nuts were in a dreadful state & whoever purchased the bike would sooner or later be forking out big time for stud removal which as others have already said is neither an easy nor cheap job. Good luck!

Robbie8666

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #15 on: 22 September 2017, 08:27:21 am »
in my experience you are already having doubts otherwise you wouldn't have posed the question on here so walk away!!

you don't owe the dealer anything so shop around!

there are other bikes out there but if you do end up looking for another fazer ask any question on here, as you have already seen there is a wealth of knowledge / experience and people willing to offer sound advice... but not just limited to fazer's ...
It ain't what you ride, it's who you ride with!!!

Oldgit

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #16 on: 22 September 2017, 11:09:28 am »
Just walk away Rene, as they say in the song.

Woody78

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #17 on: 22 September 2017, 02:24:55 pm »
Thanks guys defo walking away, unfortunately I foolishly put a £200 deposit on the bike on wed which the dealer is now refusing to pay back. 🙈

BBROWN1664

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #18 on: 22 September 2017, 02:38:20 pm »
If your going to lose £200 then you may as well buy it. Otherwise you need to find one in better condition for £800 that has a warranty.

Speak to them about putting new downpipes on.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

celticdog

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #19 on: 22 September 2017, 02:47:23 pm »
Thanks guys defo walking away, unfortunately I foolishly put a £200 deposit on the bike on wed which the dealer is now refusing to pay back. 🙈

That's unfortunate fella  >:

Did you sign any paperwork? Either way I'm afraid you'll have a fight to get anything back from him.

If your going to lose £200 then you may as well buy it. Otherwise you need to find one in better condition for £800 that has a warranty.

Speak to them about putting new downpipes on.

I think this might be your best option now. Unfortunately there's no cooling off period, you'll need to argue that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, unless you get the downpipes sorted.

Treat everything in life the way a dog would- if you can't eat it or foc it, forget it.

red98

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #20 on: 22 September 2017, 07:57:43 pm »
Downpipes look solid to me , OK they dont look too good but not falling apart , wire brush , a good sanding and a fresh coat of paint will soon get them looking good again....bike is priced by the mileage , yes a little high but the mileage is low , I have the same year bike which in a few weeks will turn 50.000........be surprised if the collector box is rotten and holed , with the deposit not returnable I would go back and have a closer look, you wont be able to see the holes in the collector box but you should be able to get your fingers in there , a torch might help , explain to the dealer your worries / concerns might get a bit off , coming to the end of the season so hes not goingvto want to lose a sale as much as you dont want to lose your deposit.......
   If you do buy it , dont forget you'll get loads of help on here if needed   ;)
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tommyardin

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #21 on: 22 September 2017, 09:24:22 pm »
Now I found myself in situation with a rusted vehicle a few years back, it was sports car and I purchased it from a dealer I paid for it in full
(Silly buy, I saw it, I loved it, shiny shiny, I want it) a similar situation but I had parted with a fairly large sum of money.


The following day I heard a noise coming from a back wheel so got a mechanically cleaver friend to take a look, while he was under the back looking at the area the squealing sound was coming form he notice a lot of yellow crayon marks all along the chassis, he got me to look and while I was there he pushed hard with his thumb in several places that were marked with crayon and shoved his thumb through the box section chassis making 5 holes in all.


Dazzer dealt with it for me he rang up the garage speaking on my behalf and said that the car was coming back and he wanted a complete refund, the garage said that they would make repairs to it and that there would be no refund.
Dazzer said that the car was neither fit for purpose or of merchantable quality and that he was taking the car for an MOT and if it failed the test which it would because a lot of the rust in the chassis was within a certain distance from the suspension mountings. This would prove that the car was not fit for purpose and that the garage had been less than professional passing a dangerous vehicle and also that the most recent MOT test would stand as a failure.
He then said to them what way do you want to play this? Within two hours the car was back at the garage from whence it came and my £4,750-00 was direct transferred back into my account.


The last thing that garage wanted was seen to be selling a car with a full years MOT on it when it was obviously not roadworthy and an MOT failure, plus they would then have a car back that the most up to date MOT test showed it as a failure.


Now its not quite the same i know BUT if it the fazer that Woody has put money down on has a full years MOT put on by the selling garage and the exhaust is rusted through to pin holes that again is an MOT failure, blowing exhaust, so again not fit for purpose or merchantable quality. therefore it does not have a valid MOT.


Also is there a law about a cooling off period when making a purchase?   


Apparently garages will often do this yellow crayon treatment to a car if it is rusty, so, if the car comes back the following tear for an MOT they know the places to look for deterioration, Wax crayon does not wash off with water of poor weather.


Good Luck Woody and I hope you get the outcome you want mate.


I think everyone should have a Dazzer as a friend, not only is he gifted mechanically he also has a good grasp of the law, and he's about 17 stone of muscle.
Don't fuck with Dazzer.

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #22 on: 22 September 2017, 10:50:20 pm »
 
Quote
Thanks guys defo walking away, unfortunately I foolishly put a £200 deposit on the bike on wed which the dealer is now refusing to pay back. 🙈
If it was a cheque phone the bank and cancel cheque.If you left deposit by credit card, phone credit card company and try to cancel.
If it was cash or debit, well you've got a problem.  Check the paperwork.  Ask citizens advive.Failing all, sit outside dealer on a Saturday.  Wait till he's got a few punters in and if you have to make a scene (don't do anything too silly though).
Good luck.
   

YamFazFan

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #23 on: 23 September 2017, 09:24:51 am »
Failing all, sit outside dealer on a Saturday.  Wait till he's got a few punters in and if you have to make a scene (don't do anything too silly though).
Good luck.

That's easier said than done ;).

A few people are comfortable doing that, but most aren't.

Sometimes you just have to chalk things up to experience.







rlkat

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Re: Rust on fazer 98, is it a problem?
« Reply #24 on: 23 September 2017, 08:17:45 pm »
Walk away.

I had a similar issue when I bought mine and the exhaust studs made it a right pain in the arse job.

My Fazer currently has very good condition exhaust studs. Is there anything I can do to prevent future problems? I'm going to take all the nuts off one by one and slap some copperslip on but is it worthwhile replacing all the studs with stainless steel ones?

rob