Date: 21-10-17  Time: 13:07 PM

Author Topic: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps  (Read 440 times)

redmandan

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2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« on: 13 September 2017, 08:26:18 PM »
Hi guys


Been lurking as a guest for a while but as I'm about to take the bike to bits I thought I would ask some advice to make sure I'm on the right track:


Backstory:
English guy living in Belgium, passed my test about a year ago and bought a fabulous 2000 Fazer with 42000 km on the clock for what I thought was a great price. Rode it to the Ardennes, rode it to work, rode it every time I could, it started up great every time and had me smiling from ear to ear. A big group of us planned a longer trip to the Alps so I prepped the bike with new tyres and a small service (oil change and once over from a local guy).


On the trip everything was fine until about the third day when we were at the base of the Alps. I had been putting the cover on the bike at night but regrettably I didn't do it this time as it was such good weather when we went to bed, it chucked it down all night. Went to start the bike in the morning and it was not raring to go like normal. No low end power, revving the engine just to keep it going, petrol smell from the exhaust. I adjusted the idle screw so it would run and made my way, albeit cautiously, up the alps in the continuing rain and heavy traffic. It was horrible bunny hopping round the hairpins. After about 3pm it got warmer and sunnier, I started to notice she was running a bit better. After stopping for fuel I hit the start button and it sprang to life like I was used to! Self healing bike!

On the trip back it rained again and all the old problems came back. What a bike though; it still got me home. It still has the same problems after sitting on the drive under cover for a few days, weather has been sunny with intermittent heavy showers. It will run if I turn it over for a good 10 seconds and give some gas but it doesn't want to keep running.

I suspect it is the coils as the exhaust for cylinders 1 and 4 get hot but 2 and 3 don't. I've been reading that 2 and 3 are on one coil whilst 1 and 4 are on the other. I also suspect the carbs need cleaning as petrol pours out of one of the overflow pipes when it is running. If the pilot jets are blocked this would explain the cold exhausts and bunny hopping at low revs. I have been reading pointer2null's post (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=91.0) about carb balancing

Jobs:
Remove tank to get at it
Check coils: Can I just swap the HT leads from 1 to 2 and 3 to 4 to test them or will they not fire at the right time?
New spark plugs all round
Check compression
Adjust valve clearences
Remove carbs and give thorough clean
Balance carbs
Replace the rubbers: I originally thought this might be the problem as they are all cracked and split
...

Anything else I might have missed let me know

bandit

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #1 on: 13 September 2017, 09:13:35 PM »
Hi, when you left the bike uncovered was it on the side stand?, if the drain holes on the cylinder head are blocked water can lay in the spark plug holes causing a misfire, dry & clean around the plugs use compressed air through the drain holes & around plugs,don't wont any crap dropping down the holes if you remove them also check plug caps are dry to. You can always switch plugs around to see if problem moves to another cylinder,a failing spark plug would be wet with petrol.       

redmandan

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #2 on: 13 September 2017, 09:38:26 PM »
It was on the centre stand as I had oiled up the chain that evening. Thanks for the advice though Bandit I will check that when I get the tank off. Just need to find time and suitable weather....

fazersharp

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #3 on: 13 September 2017, 09:43:20 PM »
(sigh ) oooook
Runny lumps after a trip to the Alps ---------------was it something you ate.
There you go - carry on - as you were 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

His Dudeness

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #4 on: 13 September 2017, 10:19:50 PM »
Running poorly after rain is usually water getting in around the spark plug caps and then you lose spark due to arcing to the engine. If you've still got the original Yamaha spark plug caps it's probably time to change them. There's an NGK cap SD05F  that will work on the Fazer and they are very cheap so well worth getting. That should solve most of the running problem. If your carbs are over flowing it's probably a float valve, float height, float seat or o ring under the float valve seat that is the problem.

Disorderlypunk

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #5 on: 13 September 2017, 10:45:13 PM »
as for replacing the rubbers mine are cracked on the outside but absolutly fine inside
so its most likely just for asthetics but at £90 a set mine can stay cracked
i read somewhere that the rubber inlets are made of two different rubbers and its only the outside that reacts to the heat but weather thats true or not i dont know


as your problems were mainly in the rain i would certainly be replacing the plug caps first with the SD05F remember to snip a little cable off the ht lead (i just took 10mm off) and check all the drain holes from around the spark plug are clear (mine were full of crap when i got it)

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the lodger

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #6 on: 22 September 2017, 08:46:45 PM »
Sounds a bit similar to what happened to me on my recent Alps trip . Lumpy running, running on 3, very difficult to start, stalling in town, very strong petrol smell. I think it was caused by a change to the petrol content ( more ethanol ? ) and was cured by new float valves and seats.


For your info seats  should be a nice brass colour but mine had turned green !


BTW if your bike isnt running on four make sure to change the oil asap after you fix the problem.


Hope this helps


Cheers

unfazed

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #7 on: 22 September 2017, 09:21:08 PM »
Hi guys


Been lurking as a guest for a while but as I'm about to take the bike to bits I thought I would ask some advice to make sure I'm on the right track:


Backstory:
English guy living in Belgium, passed my test about a year ago and bought a fabulous 2000 Fazer with 42000 km on the clock for what I thought was a great price. Rode it to the Ardennes, rode it to work, rode it every time I could, it started up great every time and had me smiling from ear to ear. A big group of us planned a longer trip to the Alps so I prepped the bike with new tyres and a small service (oil change and once over from a local guy).


On the trip everything was fine until about the third day when we were at the base of the Alps. I had been putting the cover on the bike at night but regrettably I didn't do it this time as it was such good weather when we went to bed, it chucked it down all night. Went to start the bike in the morning and it was not raring to go like normal. No low end power, revving the engine just to keep it going, petrol smell from the exhaust. I adjusted the idle screw so it would run and made my way, albeit cautiously, up the alps in the continuing rain and heavy traffic. It was horrible bunny hopping round the hairpins. After about 3pm it got warmer and sunnier, I started to notice she was running a bit better. After stopping for fuel I hit the start button and it sprang to life like I was used to! Self healing bike!

On the trip back it rained again and all the old problems came back. What a bike though; it still got me home. It still has the same problems after sitting on the drive under cover for a few days, weather has been sunny with intermittent heavy showers. It will run if I turn it over for a good 10 seconds and give some gas but it doesn't want to keep running.

I suspect it is the coils as the exhaust for cylinders 1 and 4 get hot but 2 and 3 don't. I've been reading that 2 and 3 are on one coil whilst 1 and 4 are on the other. I also suspect the carbs need cleaning as petrol pours out of one of the overflow pipes when it is running. If the pilot jets are blocked this would explain the cold exhausts and bunny hopping at low revs. I have been reading pointer2null's post (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=91.0) about carb balancing

Jobs:
Remove tank to get at it
Check coils: Can I just swap the HT leads from 1 to 2 and 3 to 4 to test them or will they not fire at the right time?
New spark plugs all round
Check compression
Adjust valve clearences
Remove carbs and give thorough clean
Balance carbs
Replace the rubbers: I originally thought this might be the problem as they are all cracked and split
...

Anything else I might have missed let me know


To be honest is sound like plug caps arcing due to water ingress.
First thing I would do is replace the plug caps with NGK ones and before you fit them cut 10mm of the wires.
In the mean time to get the bike running remove the 4 plug caps and spray WD40 into the top and bottom of them cut 10mm off the wires and put them back on.
Do not cut 10 mm off the wires twice.

redmandan

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #8 on: 23 September 2017, 01:39:06 PM »
Thanks for all the tips guys. I didn't realise wet gunk could build up around the plugs so that is a top tip. Life is getting in the way with a visit to the in-laws in Spain but I've used the time constructively to order new plugs and those great NGK caps suggested.

Total spend is <€30 right now. I'll get some carb cleaning fluid from a local guy and get to work. If she runs good as new for that price I'll be more than pleased.

« Last Edit: 09 October 2017, 10:35:26 PM by redmandan »

Fazerider

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #9 on: 23 September 2017, 03:24:10 PM »

I’d do as unfazed suggests.
Also check the cylinder head drain holes are clear.
A flooding carb is most likely to be due to the O-ring around the body of the float valve failing rather than the valve itself. Depending on how much you’re prepared to spend you can get a carb repair kit which comes with the gasket, valve and O-rings or, as I did, just buy a universal set of O-rings and pick out the size that suits for a fraction of the price.  :)

Disorderlypunk

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #10 on: 26 September 2017, 02:10:05 AM »
problem with universal o rings is that some degrade very quickly - i think its silicone content that does it
this problem has bit me in the arse twice
1st time replacing fuel tap o ring and it didnt last long (just grabbed some rings from a box meant for water taps)
2nd time was when i bought my girl at the time a little 125 and the previous owner replaced all the hoses with silicone hoses which looked great in blue untill a week before her test the bike decided to spit all its fuel across my garage (thank god it was summer and the central heating boiler hadnt come on during the night, one turn of a hot tap would have caused an explosion)

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Hugh Mungus

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #11 on: 26 September 2017, 09:37:45 PM »

As I am also new to Fazer ownership I will be checking those drain holes at the weekend - Top Tip, thank you.



The plug caps screw onto the HT leads (just in case you didn't know) it pretty easy to do. Where the old cap was screwed in will probably look a little green and crappy which is why you cut 10mm off the HT lead as it will be a lot cleaner.
Pat.

redmandan

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #12 on: 09 October 2017, 11:03:28 PM »
Just got done cleaning the carbs out. The process of getting them off the bike was reasonably straightforward with the Haynes manual apart from the damned throttle cables. In the end I had to take the carbs half off the bike to get some access and then wiggle everything around to be able to disconnect them. I'm not looking forward to re-connecting them and I don't think all the twisting and pinching with pliers is too good for the cables but needs must.


Cleaning them was quite enjoyable. A few years back I took the carb apart on my CG125 (my first bike!) and it went back together no problem, but that was a single cylinder slide carb (I think) whereas the Fazer has 4 times the carbs and each is more complicated. The first one was quite clean really and I felt I might be wasting my time. Then I got to the second one and it was in definite need of some TLC. Pilot jet was indeed blocked. I treated myself to an air compressor and with a bit of carb cleaner whatever was blocking it is now banished to the floor of my garage, never to be swept up. As I progressed across the carbs another one had a blockage in one of the holes on the side of the main jet as well and also a blockage in one of the needle valve seats. Does a blocked needle valve seat cause overflowing carbs whilst the engine is running?


As for the rest with such blocked carbs I'm thinking maybe the tank is rusty on the inside, anybody heard of this being a problem? I think I'll fill a few glass bottles from the tap on the tank whilst it's off the bike and see if I can see any particles.


I also bought myself a carb balancing tool so I'm gonna have a look at checking the valve clearances, then put the bike back together and balance those carbs. Bike should be ready just in time for winter!  :rolleyes




Hugh Mungus

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Re: 2000 FZS 600 runs lumpy after a trip to the Alps
« Reply #13 on: 10 October 2017, 04:38:59 AM »
Does a blocked needle valve seat cause overflowing carbs whilst the engine is running?


As for the rest with such blocked carbs I'm thinking maybe the tank is rusty on the inside, anybody heard of this being a problem? I think I'll fill a few glass bottles from the tap on the tank whilst it's off the bike and see if I can see any particles.



Yes, the needle valve being blocked will cause overflow problems.


If any of the particles are black this indicates that the fuel hose is degrading and needs changing. Easier and quicker to take a section of pipe to bike dealer (or car parts supplier if there are no bike dealers) to match the diameter of the pipe. It's not very expensive so buy more than you need. Also fit an in line filter and some proper hose clips instead of jubilee clips.


The tank can go rusty on the inside (it does on most bikes eventually) or get loads of crap in it. It takes a bit to clean them out but it's worth doing. If it is very rusty it might be easier (and cheaper) to find a replacement.
Pat.