Downshifting how do you do it?

[Val]

When I downshift I usually go down more then one gear. For example if I am in 5th or 6th I go down straight to 3rd or even 2nd. That gives me more stopping power.

In order to not potato myself I use clutch slipping. My process for decisive slow down is, say I am in 5th:

1. A little front brake.
2. Disengage with the clutch
2. 3 down shifts to 2nd.
3. Engage back with the clutch slipping it so that the force is smooth.
4. Final front brake.

I was not sure that is the right way to shift, but it works for me. I read that some guys saying they go very fast sequentially like 5th,4th,3rd,2nd gear.
My thinking was I am not a pro works for me this more then one gear down thing.

Then today I have watched MotoGP Petruci footwork. Big surprise I am not alone. Everybody is cheating and doing more than one gear down?   

http://foccerwulf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/petruccis-fancy-footwork-notice-he-goes.html

How do you do your gear shift guys?

Any tips?

[fazersharp]

I couldnt say that I do it any particular way because I use all techniques in many different situations and if I am going slow enough then dont even use the clutch down to 2nd

[fazerscotty]

Depends on the situation, conditions etc, but a downshift will be accompanied by a "blip"  and depending on how many gears I'm dropping will depend on the number of "blips".
Very rarely will I just go straight down through the 'box unless situations dictate. 

[darrsi]

To an inexperienced rider attempting to downshift more than one gear at a time could end up with some interesting results.
I think it's a personal thing with many factors involved including speed, weather, road conditions, etc.
Experience certainly rules though, but you will only get there by learning from your own mistakes.

[vinnyb]

 The difference is that racers are either hard on the throttle or hard on the brakes, so they can block change down the box cos they're losing speed so quickly and they have a slipper clutch to avoid lock ups. It's a bit different slowing from 70 mph or so in top gear for a roundabout, bend, speed limit etc. when you're braking more gently, if you slow to 30mph in top gear you're getting no engine braking at those revs and to then pull the clutch in to change down 3 gears, you lose your drive for quite a distance and then have the engine braking come in with a bang, it sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me. To be honest I don't really know what revs I change down at, I guess around 5-6k, so I don't get a lot engine braking but I rarely block change unless I have to emergency brake or have got it wrong I don't imagine it does the clutch a lot of good either.

[fazersharp]

The difference is that racers are either hard on the throttle or hard on the brakes, so they can block change down the box cos they're losing speed so quickly and they have a slipper clutch to avoid lock ups. It's a bit different slowing from 70 mph or so in top gear for a roundabout, bend, speed limit etc. when you're braking more gently, if you slow to 30mph in top gear you're getting no engine braking at those revs and to then pull the clutch in to change down 3 gears, you lose your drive for quite a distance and then have the engine braking come in with a bang, it sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me. To be honest I don't really know what revs I change down at, I guess around 5-6k, so I don't get a lot engine braking but I rarely block change unless I have to emergency brake or have got it wrong I don't imagine it does the clutch a lot of good either.

Thats where blipping comes in

[tommyardin]

FFS going down the box shifting from top or even 5th down through the box to 2nd without releaseing the clutch sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Assuming 5th gear at say 60 mph, throttle shut, down through the box to 2nd gear with no revs, it sounds like back wheel lock up time to me, not ideal on the straight let alone entering a bend.

I think I will stick to the multiple blip and use each gears braking effect, not only is it effective braking it is also smooth and progressive, plus you in the right gear with back wheel under control ready to power out of the bend.

There are not that many bends on the average ride or commute that requires dropping from top to second gear to take the bend, if we are talking about braking in an emergency I certainly would not be thinking about how many gears I have dropped through before dropping the clutch.
The old saying is in that situation look where you want to go not look at what you are trying to miss, avoidance tactics in that situation are often more productive than slamming those big twin disk and 4 pot callipers on and stomping on the back brake resulting a rear ending lock up.

A lot of bike disasters (not all) are caused by the rider losing his or her bottle.I know cos I done it, felt I have over cooked it approaching a corner braked causeing the bike to try to stand up at that point realising that I'm not going to make it round the bend so in panic stand on the brakes, it always ends in tears.
The best rider manuals will tell you right gear right time the instant power available to you can get you out of trouble. 60 mph clutch disengaged in second gear ain't no use to anyone.

[vinnyb]

Absolutely I always 'blip' when I'm changing down, it just raises the revs to match the engine speed of the next gear down and helps the gears to engage more smoothly. I've been riding for 34 years and can't remember ever having not done it.

[vinnyb]

Absolutely I always 'blip' when I'm changing down, it just raises the revs to match the engine speed of the next gear down and helps the gears to engage more smoothly. I've been riding for 34 years and can't remember ever having not done it.

 Sorry Tommy, that reply was to Sharpie's post.

[tommyardin]

Same as that Vinny.
It also sounds brilliant rapid changes down the box then power on hard out of the bend or roundabout.
I live close to the A3 London to Portsmouth road in Hampshire and from my place I can hear the bikes going down through the boxes approaching Ham Barn roundabout and giving it large as the power out of it, puts a massive smile on my face each time I hear it.

[tommyardin]

That's cool mate, I think we are all singing from the same song sheet

[vinnyb]

 

That's cool mate, I think we are all singing from the same song sheet

It certainly sounds like it Just out of interest and on bit of a tangent. I rarely look at my tacho, except to check whether I'm in top. I tend to use feel and sound to change up and down, is this the way most of us do it?

[Nemesis]

Great thread guys learning a lot from this

[darrsi]

 

That's cool mate, I think we are all singing from the same song sheet

It certainly sounds like it Just out of interest and on bit of a tangent. I rarely look at my tacho, except to check whether I'm in top. I tend to use feel and sound to change up and down, is this the way most of us do it?

I think when you're a new rider it's totally normal to wonder what gear you're in or if it's the right gear, but after a while it's mainly all about the sound, you just get to know what's right.
Then after a really long while riding you do everything subconsciously without even really thinking about anything, most likely because you're more interested in keeping an eye on your immediate surroundings to stay as safe as possible.
I have noticed with these bikes though that if you do have a moment when you manage to go on a mad one and start giving the throttle a handful the bike really seems to relish it, and the engine tone can really perk up like it's almost begging for more.
At the moment i've got my Moto GP exhaust on so it tends to calm me down a bit, as it's so loud i really don't want to get pulled by the old bill, and even worse i took the baffle out again the other day just to remind myself of the sound and i couldn't stop grinning. 
I keep seeing/hearing these Harley's about that are as loud as fuck and don't understand how they get away with noise regulations, yet just know as soon as i attempt to ride without my baffle in place i'm gonna get pulled over? At the moment my exhaust is borderline legal as far as noise is concerned and is BSAU stamped too.

[Bretty]

I generally do whatever I need to do to keep the bike between 10,000 and 13,000rpm. And you usually want to be blipping the throttle at around those levels! ;-)


Joking aside, dispite feeling a high revving idiot, it's really good practice to be revving high into a corner as engine braking can save you if the corner tightens. Equally you're supposed to go into a corner slow and be on the power throughout the turn as it transfers the weight to the back tyre.


Personally I always change down by backing of the throttle and using the clutch. Rarely multiple gears at a time unless I know I'm going to stop.

[vinnyb]

I generally do whatever I need to do to keep the bike between 10,000 and 13,000rpm. And you usually want to be blipping the throttle at around those levels! ;-)


Joking aside, dispite feeling a high revving idiot, it's really good practice to be revving high into a corner as engine braking can save you if the corner tightens. Equally you're supposed to go into a corner slow and be on the power throughout the turn as it transfers the weight to the back tyre.


Personally I always change down by backing of the throttle and using the clutch. Rarely multiple gears at a time unless I know I'm going to stop.

If you go into a corner too high in the rev band you'll run out of revs as you accelerate out and have to change up while you're still leant over which destabilises the bike. I agree that you need to be where the power is but if you enter a corner at lower end of the 'power band' you'll have revs left to complete the bend in the same gear, you need to be gently opening the throttle throughout the bend just to maintain a constant speed.

[locksmith]

Sitting here I haven't got a clue how I change down!!!

Is it just me? 

[Hedgetrimmer]

Sitting here I haven't got a clue how I change down!!!

Is it just me? 

I think it's an internet discussion thing. Everyone over-analyses everything these days 

[slappy]

Sitting here I haven't got a clue how I change down!!!

Is it just me? 

Nope, I am just the same.

[steve 10562cc]

I just do it as I have for the last 40 odd years, don't think about just do, it still in one piece so can't be doing it far wrong.

[tommyardin]

 

That's cool mate, I think we are all singing from the same song sheet

It certainly sounds like it Just out of interest and on bit of a tangent. I rarely look at my tacho, except to check whether I'm in top. I tend to use feel and sound to change up and down, is this the way most of us do it?

I tend to wait for the blood to start filling my eyes then knock it up another cog   
Yes, it's the feel of the bike after a while of owning any bike you instinctively know when to cog swap either up or down, unless of course you scratching with buddies then you looking for the red line (Not going to let them bastards leave me behind

If you ride on the red line the FZS 600 Fazer is absolutely mental for a small engined bike, the 0-60mph is astounding quick.
I have had German and Italian sports cars give up at about 100 and pull over and let me bye, they don't care for it you sitting in the fast lane and flashing them to get out of the way  .

I was absolutely gobsmacked with the power of my FZS when I first got it, I had been off bikes for almost 40 years and had been used to the power of British 650 parallel twins with the top speed of about 104 mph downhill with a trailing wind if you were lucky, or alternatively over Beachy Head, the power output was about 46 BHP, that is just less than half the BHP of the 2003 FZS 600 and the Fazer is good for around 145 mph and can get to 60 mph in less than 4 seconds.

Thinking back to my early British 650 twin days, I am now wondering why they had a speedo when a foccing calendar would have been more appropriate.  

[vinnyb]

Thinking back to my early British 650 twin days, I am now wondering why they had a speedo when a foccing calendar would have been more appropriate.  

Can you imagine the Fazer's speed with the handling and brakes of a 1959 triumph tiger 100 though?

[tommyardin]

We were poor lads then, no hydrolics just pre-stretched cables, twin leading shoe on the front if you were lucky, single leading shoe on the rear end. My BSA Super Rocket had twin leading on the front with an airdam/scoop when it rained it funnelled the water into the hub and made the brake almost non exsistant. All the rear ever did was make the back wheel skid, you would pres down on the pedal, nothing, nothing, nothing, lockup.
The thing that always seemed to happen was when the shoes wore down and the cables stretch the angle of pull on the brake hub lever was way over 90 degrees so did foc all.


 

[steve 10562cc]

We survived old Brit bikes and the early Jap bikes disc brakes that did nothing to stop the bike in the wet. I past my test at 16 and got a 500 Suzuki guess I was one of the lucky ones to survive those early years ridding, went to a few funerals of mates that didn't make it to be 18.

[tommyardin]

We survived old Brit bikes and the early Jap bikes disc brakes that did nothing to stop the bike in the wet. I past my test at 16 and got a 500 Suzuki guess I was one of the lucky ones to survive those early years ridding, went to a few funerals of mates that didn't make it to be 18.

That's a tough one Steve, fortunately I did not see any of my biker buddies in a coffin, well not through biking.


I ended up in hospital a few times with nothing more serious than a squashed hand a couple of broken fingers and an ankle bone that had to be built up after I had filed it away being dragged about 40 yards under a old BSA, foccing thing weighed a ton with its thick steel mudguards and steel nacelle type headlight unit.
What a piece of shit that bike was in nasty brown/maroon colour.
Ooooppps a bit off topic