Date: 20-09-17  Time: 01:22 AM

Author Topic: Downshift Blipping  (Read 1346 times)

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,205
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #25 on: 06 September 2017, 10:19:04 PM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.
I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

robbo

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,078
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - Mk 1 Speed Triple
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #26 on: 06 September 2017, 10:51:57 PM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.
I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking. :)

steve 10562cc

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Faired Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #27 on: 07 September 2017, 06:50:55 AM »
Could not blipping the throttle be the reason so many FZR600 and Thundercat gearboxes had problems with second gear at about 25/30k miles.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,298
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #28 on: 07 September 2017, 06:58:49 AM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic. The first truck I drove was a 50's Morris Commercial which had no synchro so had to be double declutched and all downward shifts required a blip of throttle to avoid missed gears.Obviously only had "struggle steering" back then as well.


After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,205
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #29 on: 07 September 2017, 10:26:54 AM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic. The first truck I drove was a 50's Morris Commercial which had no synchro so had to be double declutched and all downward shifts required a blip of throttle to avoid missed gears.Obviously only had "struggle steering" back then as well.


After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?
During a pootle or commute to work i very much doubt that it would ever be needed either  :pokefun
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,409
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #30 on: 07 September 2017, 10:28:29 AM »



After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?


Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,205
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #31 on: 07 September 2017, 10:34:30 AM »



After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?


Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.
Yes its just a "blip" surly the name describes it perfectly
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,298
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #32 on: 07 September 2017, 01:27:06 PM »



After first reading this post i actually wondered if i did this with out even knowing but after riding the bike i realized i don't, plus don't see the reason to either?
My bike goes up and down the gears as smooth as you like so revving the nuts off it has not really crossed my mind as a necessary option to be honest?


Who said anything about revving the nuts off it? Some people here have a very strange idea of this 'blipping' thing.


Okay, wrong choice of words, but i know what i meant and i still don't do it.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,298
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #33 on: 09 September 2017, 01:16:55 PM »
So, i just got called into work and as the traffic was a bit lighter i gave the bike a bit of welly, and it turns out that i do actually blip the throttle at higher speeds.
I think i've been riding so long now that i don't really think about what i'm doing anymore, i just ride it.  :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

Val

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Foccer-Wulf
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - MT09
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #34 on: 11 September 2017, 07:26:07 PM »

Thanks Val, you explained it so i understand.


I have started doing it recently but obviously didn't understand why the need for it. Although i think i need more practice coz sometimes i fook it up and surge forward when no expecting it.  :lol

You welcome  :)

BTW it happens all the time to everybody. If you do more throttle than needed you surge forward if you do less you feel too much braking.

Some guys (not me) master matching the speed and the revs to the extend that they do almost clutchless downshifts.
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not.


Bretty

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #35 on: 11 September 2017, 08:07:42 PM »
Just let the clutch out a little slower. As long as you're still using the brakes it'll  be fine.
-suck-squeeze-bang-blow-

Flooky

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #36 on: 11 September 2017, 10:30:01 PM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.
I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking. :)
I have to agree with Robbo, I don't know how you could make progress ( go fast ) without blipping, if you just change down the bike slows and then you at the wrong part of the rev range to exit the corner briskly. I sort of don't really understand this post if I am honest. its like asking how to ride a bike really. don't wanna be rude .

moffmeister

  • Boffie - Yaks it like it is
    Terminally Incontinent
    The Golden Bulge
    The only gay in the village
    Moff Minogue


  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,956
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Faired Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #37 on: 12 September 2017, 10:18:17 AM »
Quote
sounds bloody nice as well


 :thumbup

Skippernick

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,981
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #38 on: 12 September 2017, 09:40:19 PM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.
I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking. :)
I have to agree with Robbo, I don't know how you could make progress ( go fast ) without blipping, if you just change down the bike slows and then you at the wrong part of the rev range to exit the corner briskly. I sort of don't really understand this post if I am honest. its like asking how to ride a bike really. don't wanna be rude .


Show me where blipping is taught in the motorcycle test!
I am not a fast rider and use the mantra slow in fast out but it has never bothered me not blipping, however every day is a school day.
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking. However as Val explained that is not what happens. Sorry my lack of technical expertise lead me to ask a question on a forum designed to help everyone!
Red Heads - Slowly taking over the world!!!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,205
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #39 on: 12 September 2017, 10:37:24 PM »
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking.
Yes that's why I do it -- to negate the engine braking - or the amount of braking because I am in control of it by how much I blip I then use the front brake instead of letting the engine braking brake the back wheel as IT wants. But all that depends on my speed before the action and my planned speed after it and the degree of the corner or the speed at which I need to slow down and also the road conditions at the time that all lead me to the blip action-front brake - a little bit of engine braking (controlled by the blip ) and no back brake at least mostly until the end- all done without thinking.  :thumbup
I have no idea why they don't teach it
Do they teach counter steering. _Genuine question, I don't know  because that is another skill in the same sort of bracket I would say.   
Another one - do they teach clutch less up shifting.   
 
« Last Edit: 13 September 2017, 10:03:30 AM by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

Flooky

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #40 on: 13 September 2017, 09:04:55 AM »
I think it's done without thinking for older bikers who needed to be mechanically sympathetic.
I do it without thinking but WASH your mouth out "OLD".

Well speaking for myself I thought this was an odd thread as blipping the throttle just comes naturally for me and is done without thinking. However in recent years I do come across younger riders that just smash their way down through the box and this would be on something without a slipper clutch. Quite possibly modern engineering negates what I'd call mechanical sympathy, but that's all I know.If someone's asking why or how down shifts are assisted with a blip of throttle I'd have to assume they were quite young or new to biking. :)
I have to agree with Robbo, I don't know how you could make progress ( go fast ) without blipping, if you just change down the bike slows and then you at the wrong part of the rev range to exit the corner briskly. I sort of don't really understand this post if I am honest. its like asking how to ride a bike really. don't wanna be rude .


Show me where blipping is taught in the motorcycle test!
I am not a fast rider and use the mantra slow in fast out but it has never bothered me not blipping, however every day is a school day.
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking. However as Val explained that is not what happens. Sorry my lack of technical expertise lead me to ask a question on a forum designed to help everyone!
Your right, sorry, the forum is designed to help. I think sometimes there is an assumed amount of bike knowledge and that is wrong.
Try blipping, makes for smoother gear changes, less jerky if you have a pillion too.
I think also what goes on in the bike test is not really useful in the real world.
cheers.

Dudeofrude

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,085
  • Rude, Crude and Tattooed
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Naked Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #41 on: 13 September 2017, 03:43:55 PM »
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking.
Yes that's why I do it -- to negate the engine braking - or the amount of braking because I am in control of it by how much I blip I then use the front brake instead of letting the engine braking brake the back wheel as IT wants. But all that depends on my speed before the action and my planned speed after it and the degree of the corner or the speed at which I need to slow down and also the road conditions at the time that all lead me to the blip action-front brake - a little bit of engine braking (controlled by the blip ) and no back brake at least mostly until the end- all done without thinking.  :thumbup
I have no idea why they don't teach it
Do they teach counter steering. _Genuine question, I don't know  because that is another skill in the same sort of bracket I would say.   
Another one - do they teach clutch less up shifting.

No and no. Counter steering as a rule isn't something that needs teaching. If you can ride a bike around a corner then you can counter steer? It's just how a 2 wheeled vehicle works. And as for clutchless upshifts..... the way you get taught is that there's a clutch there for a reason.
Like anything you don't start learning until you've passed the test.

Another example of confusing instruction that I received was i wether to pull your clutch in while performing an emergency stop. Now on my lessons and for my test I was taught to leave the clutch engaged until the very last minute to make use of the engine braking to slow me down.....makes sense.
Then I went and did some advanced racing training at Caldwell and was taught to pull the clutch in straight away as leaving it was driving the rear wheel thus forcing you further forward....also makes sense. So who do you listen to? The driving instructor who's been teaching people to pass tests for 15+years or the ex racer thats raced for 15+ years?

Skippernick

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,981
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #42 on: 13 September 2017, 04:09:10 PM »
If you bothered to read my original post i asked the question why do it, if the engine matches the revs to wheel speed when changing down, wind on the throttle and you negate the engine braking.
Yes that's why I do it -- to negate the engine braking - or the amount of braking because I am in control of it by how much I blip I then use the front brake instead of letting the engine braking brake the back wheel as IT wants. But all that depends on my speed before the action and my planned speed after it and the degree of the corner or the speed at which I need to slow down and also the road conditions at the time that all lead me to the blip action-front brake - a little bit of engine braking (controlled by the blip ) and no back brake at least mostly until the end- all done without thinking.  :thumbup
I have no idea why they don't teach it
Do they teach counter steering. _Genuine question, I don't know  because that is another skill in the same sort of bracket I would say.   
Another one - do they teach clutch less up shifting.

No and no. Counter steering as a rule isn't something that needs teaching. If you can ride a bike around a corner then you can counter steer? It's just how a 2 wheeled vehicle works. And as for clutchless upshifts..... the way you get taught is that there's a clutch there for a reason.
Like anything you don't start learning until you've passed the test.

Another example of confusing instruction that I received was i wether to pull your clutch in while performing an emergency stop. Now on my lessons and for my test I was taught to leave the clutch engaged until the very last minute to make use of the engine braking to slow me down.....makes sense.
Then I went and did some advanced racing training at Caldwell and was taught to pull the clutch in straight away as leaving it was driving the rear wheel thus forcing you further forward....also makes sense. So who do you listen to? The driving instructor who's been teaching people to pass tests for 15+years or the ex racer thats raced for 15+ years?


Was that racer training specifically for a road emergency stop, not heard that one before.
I feel a group test on an airfield coming on.
Red Heads - Slowly taking over the world!!!

Bretty

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #43 on: 13 September 2017, 04:57:05 PM »
...Another example of confusing instruction that I received was i wether to pull your clutch in while performing an emergency stop. Now on my lessons and for my test I was taught to leave the clutch engaged until the very last minute to make use of the engine braking to slow me down.....makes sense.
Then I went and did some advanced racing training at Caldwell and was taught to pull the clutch in straight away as leaving it was driving the rear wheel thus forcing you further forward....also makes sense. So who do you listen to? ...

I was told on my lessons to leave the clutch engaged until the last minute because... it helps prevent the rear wheel from locking up, which is a fail during the Mod A test.

Who's to say who's right and wrong?! Personally I pull in the clutch during an emergency stop, but use the clutch/engine braking when doing heavy high speed braking.

-suck-squeeze-bang-blow-

vinnyb

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #44 on: 13 September 2017, 06:11:33 PM »



No and no. Counter steering as a rule isn't something that needs teaching. If you can ride a bike around a corner then you can counter steer? It's just how a 2 wheeled vehicle works.
You're right about countersteering being the way a 2 wheeled vehicle turns but only above a certain speed, 10-15mph? so we must all do it intuitively from day one, but when you are aware of it and do it consciously and positively you can become more accurate with turn in points and changing your line while your leant over. I'd been riding for years before I knew about it. Back around 1984/ 85ish my then girlfriend (now wife) bought me a book called 'superbiking' for Christmas, written by a bloke called Blackett Ditchburn which was very educational about all sorts of stuff bike (riding) related, Don morley did the photography, loads of early 80's stuff, Kats and CBXs and the like. Anyone else read it?
 

Oldgit

  • foccerwithoutaspacebar
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
  • Old Age & Treachery will Overcome Youth & Skill
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - BMW R1200RS Sport SE
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #45 on: 14 September 2017, 10:02:55 AM »
Buy a BMW R1200RS SE then you don't have to blip the throttle, just down shift easy peasy pudding and pie.

Robbie8666

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - CBF1000
    • View Profile
    • RNVMCC
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #46 on: 14 September 2017, 12:01:01 PM »
out of interest I just been out for a ride (Portsmouth to Basingstoke) and actually thought about how I change gear, I not sure what you mean by throttle blipping as in giving more throttle as you change down, but I did notice that I shut my throttle off momentarily as I changed down!
don't know why I do it but I noticed it was an automatic reaction!
It ain't what you ride, it's who you ride with!!!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,205
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #47 on: 14 September 2017, 12:17:27 PM »
out of interest I just been out for a ride (Portsmouth to Basingstoke) and actually thought about how I change gear, I not sure what you mean by throttle blipping as in giving more throttle as you change down, but I did notice that I shut my throttle off momentarily as I changed down!
don't know why I do it but I noticed it was an automatic reaction!
It gos - throttle off -clutch in -blip throttle on - change down -let clutch out. And mostly accompanied with two fingers braking on the front, The blip spins up the engine so you dont get such a big engine brake effect on the back wheel and you are more in control of the engine braking by how much you blip and also at the same time braking more with the front than with the back via the engine   
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

F4celess

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 92
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #48 on: 14 September 2017, 12:30:48 PM »
I will come clean and state I got my full A1 license through taking a DAS course. I did however ride scooters in my youth (so wasn't unfamiliar to motorcycles).
At no time did any of the Instructors through the "big bike" lessons, talk about blipping the throttle for smoother (+ mechanical wear reducing) gear changes.

It's down as an advanced technique, primarily Sports bikes (on the race circuit), when decelerating rapidly, from high speeds, is a norm.
In which case, why should it be necessary to "blip shift" under normal, public road riding/commuting circumstances?

If you have physically slowed to the point you feel a gear down (or 2) is necessary, the engine has already slowed sufficiently, and the gear down wont affect the revs to any great extent. Hence a "regular" clutch in / change gear / SMOOTH clutch out, should be sufficient?

..............perhaps I just don't ride fast enough :lol

Jamieg285

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
  • What does this do?
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #49 on: 14 September 2017, 01:10:16 PM »
I've been reading this post with interest, as to my knowledge I've never blipped on downshifts.   I've given it a bit of a go and not got on with it, but I think that's a timing issue more than anything, and may be suiited to specific scenarios.  I've found in most cases I'm already braking when shifting down, so trying to brake and blip isn't easy.  I suspect it comes more into it's own when you are flowing at faster speeds and having braked are going down the gears ready for the next power blast.

What I did notice is that in some cases I've been holding a fixed throttle position when changing down.  This has the effect of a mild blip when you pull the clutch as it releases the load on the engine.