Date: 28-03-24  Time: 09:49 am

Author Topic: Downshift Blipping  (Read 15903 times)

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #50 on: 14 September 2017, 03:49:31 pm »
I will come clean and state I got my full A1 license through taking a DAS course. I did however ride scooters in my youth (so wasn't unfamiliar to motorcycles).
At no time did any of the Instructors through the "big bike" lessons, talk about blipping the throttle for smoother (+ mechanical wear reducing) gear changes.

It's down as an advanced technique, primarily Sports bikes (on the race circuit), when decelerating rapidly, from high speeds, is a norm.
In which case, why should it be necessary to "blip shift" under normal, public road riding/commuting circumstances?

If you have physically slowed to the point you feel a gear down (or 2) is necessary, the engine has already slowed sufficiently, and the gear down wont affect the revs to any great extent. Hence a "regular" clutch in / change gear / SMOOTH clutch out, should be sufficient?

..............perhaps I just don't ride fast enough :lol


A lot of the things you do while riding are personal, some blip some don't.
Blipping most definitely will get you down through the box faster and smoother, it will really help you gain the most out of the braking effect of the engine,  the whole process will be more fluid and controlled. As you know being fully in control as you enter a bend is a must, and as you go rapidly down through the box will will be in control and also in the right gear with the right rev band to acceleration back out of the bend, powering on as see the bend start to straighten at its vanishing point.
My opinion only of course. 


The only negative thing about blipping the throttle on the change down is that you will use slightly more fuel, a small price to pay for smooth changes, gained braking effect and more control.   

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #51 on: 14 September 2017, 09:22:53 pm »
Quote
I am not a fast rider and use the mantra slow in fast out but it has never bothered me not blipping, however every day is a school day.

  Sometimes I take it easy, other times I’m blasting along.  I’d guess if I’m hard on the brakes then trailing the front brake into a corner whilst popping down a couple of gears at the same time, well if I didn’t, err, ‘blip’ the throttle, I’d possibly end up on my arse.  I’ve always done it, it’s how you down change unless you are piddling along and then you don’t even need the clutch for down changes.

Now this gets me wondering.  Like most folks here I also have and drive a car.  I’ve always driven manual cars, and yeah I do the same in the car, although yeah sometimes I’ll just let that clutch slip a lot cos heel toes is tricky and to be honest I suspect in race and proper supercars the pedals will be placed nice and close to facilitate heel toe.  But is it the prevalence of automatics today, these fancy DSG boxes, is that why maybe folks are struggling to fully master manual gearing changing?  Just a thought.

 
Quote
Counter steering as a rule isn't something that needs teaching. If you can ride a bike around a corner then you can counter steer?

 Well yeah Dudeofrude, there is only one way to make a bike turn, and that is to counter steer.  I just cannot believe that people are trained how to ride a bike on the road without being taught how to steer the bloody thing.  One of the first things I’ll often ask a new biker “is do you know how to steer?”  or “do you understand countersteering”   Hey I’ve had the odd youngster that’s told me it’s bull shite, but most have listened, tried it and thanked me for the tip.  Knowing how to steer and change direction at will and rapidly is an essential life saving skill.
 
 

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #52 on: 14 September 2017, 10:34:46 pm »
Quote
I am not a fast rider and use the mantra slow in fast out but it has never bothered me not blipping, however every day is a school day.

  Sometimes I take it easy, other times I’m blasting along.  I’d guess if I’m hard on the brakes then trailing the front brake into a corner whilst popping down a couple of gears at the same time, well if I didn’t, err, ‘blip’ the throttle, I’d possibly end up on my arse.  I’ve always done it, it’s how you down change unless you are piddling along and then you don’t even need the clutch for down changes.

Now this gets me wondering.  Like most folks here I also have and drive a car.  I’ve always driven manual cars, and yeah I do the same in the car, although yeah sometimes I’ll just let that clutch slip a lot cos heel toes is tricky and to be honest I suspect in race and proper supercars the pedals will be placed nice and close to facilitate heel toe.  But is it the prevalence of automatics today, these fancy DSG boxes, is that why maybe folks are struggling to fully master manual gearing changing?  Just a thought.

 
Quote
Counter steering as a rule isn't something that needs teaching. If you can ride a bike around a corner then you can counter steer?

 Well yeah Dudeofrude, there is only one way to make a bike turn, and that is to counter steer.  I just cannot believe that people are trained how to ride a bike on the road without being taught how to steer the bloody thing.  One of the first things I’ll often ask a new biker “is do you know how to steer?”  or “do you understand countersteering”   Hey I’ve had the odd youngster that’s told me it’s bull shite, but most have listened, tried it and thanked me for the tip.  Knowing how to steer and change direction at will and rapidly is an essential life saving skill.


With the exception of a Honda Accord I had always had manual gearboxes in car, but, have recently taken possession of a Merc SLK 2.3 Kompressor, now I never realised what a Kompressor actually was, I made the assumption that it was a turbo but in fact it is a crankshaft driven supercharger, hence better performance than the turbo and no lag what-so-ever that coupled with a 5 speed automatic tiptronic box, it makes for a rapid car, with incredibly rapid gear changes both up and down the box. it has a better top speed than my FZS 600 by about 10 mph but the good old Fazer beats it hands down 0-60 mph by almost 3 seconds, SLK 6.7 secs, FZS 600 3.8 seconds, if you can put the rubber down hard enough.


I love my FZS 600, in my opinion it is one of the best all rounder bikes available, 147 ish MPH and stunningly quick off the mark. Plus I love the retro look, a bit Star wars-ish but i love it.

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #53 on: 14 September 2017, 10:37:37 pm »
What any of that has to do with blipping the throttle F--k  Only Knows

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #54 on: 14 September 2017, 10:47:15 pm »

I love my FZS 600, in my opinion it is one of the best all rounder bikes available, 147 ish MPH


Weird how these Fazers get faster and faster as time goes by  :lol

Dudeofrude

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #55 on: 15 September 2017, 07:38:07 am »

I love my FZS 600, in my opinion it is one of the best all rounder bikes available, 147 ish MPH


Weird how these Fazers get faster and faster as time goes by  :lol

Haha yeah especially when Yamaha only quote the top speed as 135mph 🤔

Then again they only quote the fz1 as 150mph, which I happen to know is misquoted 😥😥
« Last Edit: 15 September 2017, 10:25:39 am by Dudeofrude »

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #56 on: 15 September 2017, 11:40:11 am »
The only thing have actually learned by reading and finding something new to me after many years of riding is clutchless upshifting, up untill a couple of years ago I had never heard of it but tryed it and its great. But on the subject of countersteering I had never actually really heard of it - or have but never bothered looking in to exactly what it was but then when I did look into it and tried it I thought "oh that" I never knew it was a thing that had a name, its just what I do unconsciously maybe since I was 3 years old an riding a tryke.
So that aspect does not need teaching but perhaps a more conscious and physical input on the bars needs teaching and practicing for a more rapid emergency change of direction for new bikers.       
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tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #57 on: 15 September 2017, 02:09:41 pm »

The only thing have actually learned by reading and finding something new to me after many years of riding is clutchless upshifting, up untill a couple of years ago I had never heard of it but tryed it and its great. But on the subject of countersteering I had never actually really heard of it - or have but never bothered looking in to exactly what it was but then when I did look into it and tried it I thought "oh that" I never knew it was a thing that had a name, its just what I do unconsciously maybe since I was 3 years old an riding a tryke.
So that aspect does not need teaching but perhaps a more conscious and physical input on the bars needs teaching and practicing for a more rapid emergency change of direction for new bikers.     

Typo on 147 should read 137 true speed on Tom Tom Bike Nav. Speedo shows more.
Apparently riding or driving anything with more than two wheels it is impossible to counter steer, that is why children have problems with the transition between a trycycle and a two wheel bike once stabilisers are removed. Motorcycle and sidecars do not counter steer that is why solo riders find it very difficult to steer a combo. That and the fact that you have to accelerate around the side car on left hinders and brake on the motorcycle and allow the side car to run around the motorcycle on right handlers.
All alien to a solo rider.

Some of the guys on here that do track days have reached speeds in access of 140 on FZS600's.
« Last Edit: 15 September 2017, 02:12:08 pm by tommyardin »

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #58 on: 15 September 2017, 03:17:51 pm »
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A FZS 600 not hanging about.


227 KPH at one point =141mph, again that is the speedo reading and not the true speed my guess would be 4 or 5 mph slower.
« Last Edit: 15 September 2017, 03:18:29 pm by tommyardin »

Dudeofrude

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #59 on: 15 September 2017, 03:42:36 pm »
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A FZS 600 not hanging about.


227 KPH at one point =141mph, again that is the speedo reading and not the true speed my guess would be 4 or 5 mph slower.


Yeah I would think once some basic mods are done (exhaust, air filter, jets etc) it would be easy to out perform Yamahas basic stats. As I said my fz1 is only supposed to do 150mph according to Yamaha yet it's been at 163mph on the dyno (which I would assume is accurate as a gps) so top speed figures and power figures should be taken with a pinch of salt

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #60 on: 15 September 2017, 04:10:58 pm »


227 KPH at one point =141mph, again that is the speedo reading and not the true speed my guess would be 4 or 5 mph slower.


I have often been surprised at how wildly inaccurate motorcycle speedos can be towards the top end. Over-reading by 10mph and more is not uncommon. But I also think that willy-waving exercises are pointless in this regard. All that counts is if you have fun on your bike imo, which is perhaps why I have never had a bike on the dyno. My Fazer is the best bike I have ever owned, and that's what counts to me.


P.S. Red ones are faster  :rollin
« Last Edit: 15 September 2017, 04:11:43 pm by Hedgetrimmer »

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #61 on: 15 September 2017, 04:54:38 pm »
Well i think that finding out your top speed is an OK thing to do, and don't really see it as a willy waving exercise.
I like to know what my bike as well as my car is capable of.
I'm not a tear arse for the best part, but, still like to know what is possible.

Valentino Rossi, Nicky Haden, Kenny Roberts, Bazzer Sheene, Casey Stoner, Carl Crutchlow, Guy Martin, Carl Fogarty, Giacomo Agostini and many other greats before and after them were ever heard so say 'finding out what a bike is capable of is willy waving.  :pokefun 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #62 on: 15 September 2017, 05:08:45 pm »


Valentino Rossi, Nicky Haden, Kenny Roberts, Bazzer Sheene, Casey Stoner, Carl Crutchlow, Guy Martin, Carl Fogarty, Giacomo Agostini and many other greats before and after them were ever heard so say 'finding out what a bike is capable of is willy waving.  :pokefun 



Have you ever noticed there is a very slight, maybe almost imperceptible difference between what they do for a living, and what you do?  :lol

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #63 on: 15 September 2017, 10:54:45 pm »


Valentino Rossi, Nicky Haden, Kenny Roberts, Bazzer Sheene, Casey Stoner, Carl Crutchlow, Guy Martin, Carl Fogarty, Giacomo Agostini and many other greats before and after them were ever heard so say 'finding out what a bike is capable of is willy waving.  :pokefun 



Have you ever noticed there is a very slight, maybe almost imperceptible difference between what they do for a living, and what you do?  :lol


Cut and pasted from my previous comment
I'm not a tear arse for the best part, but, still like to know what is possible.
So if your a racer its OK to know what the top speed of a motorcycle is, but, if you don't ride professionally its willy waving.

All those non professional guys who love do track days WILLY WAVERS.
Wanting to know what is possible is what got man to the moon and the bottom of the deepest ocean, it is also finding a cure for cancer and other life threatening diseases, those that do that all want to know what is possible, More willy wavers. :pokefun
« Last Edit: 15 September 2017, 10:56:05 pm by tommyardin »

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #64 on: 15 September 2017, 11:06:37 pm »

Wanting to know what is possible is what got man to the moon and the bottom of the deepest ocean



What did they bring back from the moon? Rocks. Colour me amazed.


They went to the bottom of the deepest ocean once (Marianas Trench). It was too dark to see anything. Great.


 :wall    :lol

darrsi

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #65 on: 15 September 2017, 11:36:54 pm »
Did 135mph on mine, with a pillion too, and the bike definitely had more to give, but some selfish car driver changed lanes about a third of a mile ahead, so i shut off the throttle.
Thing is, it ain't much fun to be honest, unless the elements are totally in your favour.
Your head and body get bashed about, and the risk is phenomenal, so i can say that i've been there done that but feel no real urge to do it again.
But it DOES need to be done, even if it's just the one experience.



More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #66 on: 16 September 2017, 09:11:13 am »
Unfortunalty Tommy, man hasn't been to the bottom of the deepest ocean either, not the really deep stuff.
But apart from that all ok. I for one have never maxed out my bike, its not really practical on road but oh that acceleration, now we all love that.
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darrsi

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #67 on: 16 September 2017, 10:41:52 am »
Unfortunalty Tommy, man hasn't been to the bottom of the deepest ocean either, not the really deep stuff.
But apart from that all ok. I for one have never maxed out my bike, its not really practical on road but oh that acceleration, now we all love that.


That is a big point you just made there, it's not just about what the bike can do, it's also hugely about the roads you ride on.
I was riding down the main road on the way home the other day and just happened to look down to my left and saw a pothole just over 2 feet in diameter and about 6 inches deep. It was on a bus route too so i'm amazed it has managed to get that dangerous without being dealt with yet.  :eek
If anyone hits it their vehicle has to get damage in some way, and obviously if a bike hits it it's game over.
I emailed Brent Council, who have taken responsibility for that particular road, as soon as i got home and explained it needs URGENT attention, so they emailed me back 2 days later thanking me for my report and said someone will look into it within 10 days and it should "hopefully" be attended to within 28 days!  :rolleyes


So doing high speeds on any roads involves a large amount of luck and blind trust in that you don't find a bad bit of tarmac or concrete that could really spoil your day.

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Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #68 on: 16 September 2017, 10:53:24 am »


So doing high speeds on any roads involves a large amount of luck and blind trust in that you don't find a bad bit of tarmac or concrete that could really spoil your day.


Hey Tommy, and have you seen the size of the potholes on the foccin moon?!  :eek   :crazy

darrsi

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #69 on: 16 September 2017, 11:02:02 am »



So dangerous.........riding with an umbrella.  :lol



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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #70 on: 26 September 2017, 09:42:18 pm »
I get puzzled by these conversations.  Up gear is clutchless or with a courtesy flick of the clutch in the low gears to help smooth it out.  Downshift, I have absolutely no idea except I don't physically blip the throttle, but then again I always use front and rear brakes all the way to the apex so I usually pick the gear I want long before I tip it in.  As for top end, 145 on the clock is easily achievable but totally pointless cos you would only do it on a straight road so a total waste of using 2 wheels.  As for speed on corners, only time I look is on the way out, never on the way in?

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #71 on: 26 September 2017, 10:20:54 pm »
Clutch-less up shifts and downshifts should be perfected so that you can ride home when your sodding clutch cable snaps and you don't want to wait 3 hours for a recovery truck where the mechanic knows f-all about bikes and has to call another truck... This is also easily achievable in a car but it requires a different technique.


Blipping on the downshift is something you'll either do or not understand why others do it. You don't have to be riding fast for it to be beneficial. It does make it easier to understand if you use your engine to assist your brakes to slow down. If you purely rely on using your brakes to slow down then you'll never understand the point of blipping. Try dropping a couple of gears on the approach to a junction, you probably already know how much this can help you slow down - maybe it felt a little jerky/jumpy... Give the throttle a blip just before you let the clutch out and it will be a lot smoother. All you are doing is trying to match the engine speed to what it will be when the clutch is let out - this saves the clutch having to suddenly speed up the engine to match the gear change.


Clutch-less up shifting in a car can be done easily. Next time you change gear look at how much the RPM goes down. Lets call it 1,000 rpm. This will be roughly the same for each gear change. So you change gear at 3,000 rpm and it now says 2,000 rpm - it is important to remember this. To change gear without the clutch... Get to 3,000 rpm. Slightly reduce pressure on the throttle while gently easing the gear stick into neutral, now let the revs drop to 2,000 rpm as you gently select the next gear. It takes a bit of practice.
Downshifts are slightly trickier - Remember those RPM values. At 2,000 RPM ease off the throttle and gently ease the gear stick into neutral. Rev the engine to 3,000 rpm (this is a more controlled blip) and gently select the next gear down. That's it. This takes a fair bit of practice to get it into gear without crunching.
I used this technique to get a mates car home very late at night when his clutch cable broke - Just put it in 1st gear and turn the ignition and away you go! Plan junctions and roundabouts in advance so you can avoid stopping and you'll be fine.

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #72 on: 26 September 2017, 10:53:11 pm »


So doing high speeds on any roads involves a large amount of luck and blind trust in that you don't find a bad bit of tarmac or concrete that could really spoil your day.


Hey Tommy, and have you seen the size of the potholes on the foccin moon?!  :eek   :crazy


Potholes! You call them POTHOLES? I have pimples on my arse bigger than them  :eek

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #73 on: 26 September 2017, 11:25:52 pm »

Some in here have said they don't blip the throttle on the down shift or they don't understand it and don't know why you would want to do it and that's OK, it's an individual thing.
Go back to my entry in here (Downshift Blipping) of 15th September and watch the video of the guy blasting along on his FZS 600 as you get towards the middle of the video the guy goes down through his box rapidly (About 1-44 seconds into the video) and uses the blipping technique, watch his speedo as he drops through the box the braking effect from the engine is smooth and the and the reduction in speed is constant, go through the box like that without blipping and each time you let the clutch out after the change down the forks will tend to dive as you lurch forward and the back tyre could lose contact 
 Hang on! I will post the video in here again


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« Last Edit: 26 September 2017, 11:29:16 pm by tommyardin »

tommyardin

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Re: Downshift Blipping
« Reply #74 on: 26 September 2017, 11:34:41 pm »
I'm not recommending you ride like that up the Highstreet, well not on a Saturday lunch time anyway. :eek
The guy takes his bike through 13.2K in a lot of gears. :'(
« Last Edit: 26 September 2017, 11:36:37 pm by tommyardin »