Electric bike

[fazersharp]

Been thinking
As in the news with no more new internal combustion cars by 2020 or whatever it was, im sure the same will apply to bikes - also its not like we are going to have a choice but I like the violence and the noise and heat and the smell of a petrol bike. Even if the electric or hydrogen power cell is going to be a faster smoother exhilaration i  will still miss the noise and smell and heat.
 

[agricola]

I cant wait to see the size of the battery pack for a hgv

[Fazerider]

Looking at Zero Motorcycles website it seems they’re at the stage where an electric bike would just about cope with my commute. But £19k for something capable of being ridden at motorway speeds for 100 miles seems a bit steep, particularly when it then needs many hours of charging.
Battery capacity of 16.3 kWh = 58.7 MJ = 1.25 litres of petrol.

[Dudeofrude]

Just like cars, the way forward is gonna be hybrid. Small engined bikes (say 300cc) with a strong battery motor. The engine charges the motor for town use then the motor is used to boost the power output of the engine on motorways.
It's working wonders in HyperCars so seems apt to try it in motorbikes..... or maybe I'm just thinking too logically 🤔

[YamFazFan]

I'm still mourning the loss of the 2-strokes 😭

[mr self destruct]

Like it or not electric bikes are going to take over, but with Zeroes, Hayabusa prices for SV650 performance, it ain't gonna happen yet.


Got to admit though, the purchase price and recharging time are the only things that put me off.

[crickleymal]

Like it or not electric bikes are going to take over, but with Zeroes, Hayabusa prices for SV650 performance, it ain't gonna happen yet.


Got to admit though, the purchase price and recharging time are the only things that put me off.

Same here. I have a 50 mile each way commute and as often as not have to park in a random street (in the car) or in a motorbike parking bay miles from any power point. Mind you by the time they phase out petrol I'll probably be dead.

[slappy]

Where are all these electric vehicles going to get charged if you do not have a  drive or garage?



How much will electricity cost when everyone is trying to charge their emission free vehicle and the goverment is getting no money from fuel and excise duty?

[mr self destruct]

Where are all these electric vehicles going to get charged if you do not have a  drive or garage?



How much will electricity cost when everyone is trying to charge their emission free vehicle and the goverment is getting no money from fuel and excise duty?

Probably public charging points where you'd pay a shitload more than if you could charge in your garage.
Electricity bills will go through the roof as demand exceeds supply. This will be countered by more power stations being built, and what will they run on? Oil! 

[darrsi]

Where are all these electric vehicles going to get charged if you do not have a  drive or garage?



How much will electricity cost when everyone is trying to charge their emission free vehicle and the goverment is getting no money from fuel and excise duty?

Believe it or not, I saw people talking about this on telly the other day and they were suggesting charging points on lamp posts!!! 
A nightmare if you all have cars and live in a block of flats!!!

Can you imagine the vandalism that will occur, and what the costs would be to fix any damage? Then the next thing would have to be an insurance claim, meaning higher premiums in the future.
I'm not trying to be negative (no pun intended) but just being realistic.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I want a Sarolea please.

Dean Harrison on a Sarolea;

[Bretty]

Just think of all the GAS powered power stations they'll have to build in every town to feed all the quick charge stations we're going to need?! Wait hang on! Did no one ask where the electricity was going to come from? ...or are we going to have a program for building nuclear power stations? Or a wind turbine on every street corner?

[fazersharp]

I think the announcement has got the intention behind it to boost the research into electric power but batteries are  over 150 years old technology and because of the pitfalls already mentioned the battery will not be the future. And maybe we are the last generation that enjoys private transport and in the future it will be autonomous driverless vehicles that you just summon up when needed and no one will own their own transport   

[vinnyb]

 I'm wondering where all the lithium etc. is going to come from to produce the 10s of 1000s of batteries they're going to need to power all these electric vehicles. Is there new technology coming through. It's interesting to note that neither Japan nor Germany are making the same commitment yet and in any case, when was the last time any Government actually met a deadline on any of their commitments?

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 At the end of the day it’s an announcement.  It’s some ink on paper that’s all.
It has to happen but simply announcing intent isn’t gonna make it reality.
It does tap into a whole host of other issues though.


Global warming, which if we don’t start making rapid change will spiral out of control.


Population – the simple fact is the world is over populated.  More people = more energy demand.  But nobody wants to talk population control.


We have only one source of energy – the sun.  What we use just now is generally stored energy.  All energy, particularly in an overpopulated planet needs to become renewable. 

Just think of all the GAS powered power stations they'll have to build in every town to feed all the quick charge stations we're going to need?! Wait hang on! Did no one ask where the electricity was going to come from? ...or are we going to have a program for building nuclear power stations? Or a wind turbine on every street corner?

Burning gas in a power station is cleaner, and using it to subsequently power a motor car is more efficient.  But it still emits massive amounts of CO2, plus it’s a limited and valuable resource. 



Nuclear power comes with it’s own special issues.   Although one big plus is it’s carbon neutral, or if you like a very low level emitter of CO2.


In terms of our economy.  Who's gonna fund and build all this stuff.  Our Tory government seems to think it’s a good idea to rely on foreign states to provide, own and profit from our essential infrastructure.  English Tory economics seem to be suicide economics, so maybe soon we won’t be able to afford many cars and bikes. 
 

[vinnyb]

 You're absolutely right VNA, Global population growing out of control and with the advancements in medicines it is only going to increase more quickly. The big rain forests are the lungs of the world and it seems nothing is being done to control their destruction for timber, palm oil and mining. The oceans are dying through the amount of plastics being pumped and dropped into them and the only reason governments are doing anything about vehicle emissions is to make the air in the big cities cleaner and hit targets set by faceless bureaucrats. I think that by 2040 the world is going to be a totally different place and electric cars are going to be the least of our problems    

[Fazerider]

Burning gas in a power station is cleaner, and using it to subsequently power a motor car is more efficient.

I accept it's cleaner, but it's not much more efficient.
Generation and transmission losses mean only about 33% of the energy in the gas appears as electricity by the time it reaches the end user. On top of that you have battery efficiency of about 80% and a motor efficiency of about 90%... overall that gets the figure below 24% efficiency, compared with about 20% for a petrol engine.
Electric vehicles can result in less CO2 being emitted, but that's more through a reduction in performance than anything else. The main advantage is an improvement in air quality in cities because the fumes are emitted elsewhere.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Generation and transmission losses mean only about 33% of the energy in the gas appears as electricity by the time it reaches the end user.

How do you come to that figure?

But yup there are big losses involved in our current model of big power stations combined with the national grid.   However local generation is another matter.  But then again, the big energy companies that rule the roost today don't won't us to adapt more efficent local generation.

[Dave48]

The big drawback,as I see it, preventing long term strategic & coherent planning re energy, health & social services,etc etc is that we "elect" a party who are in power for the short term(4-5 years) between elections.
There is no doubt that we all now face unprecedented problems re overcrowding, diminishing air "quality", increased demand/competition for finite resources and global warming. I see no signs that our present bunch of politicians have any idea what to do about the really important issues that affect all of us & more so our children & grand children.
Whatever happened to the hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles that Honda trialled in California? These required liquid hydrogen as power source & the only exhaust was water vapour resulting from this clean burn vehicle? Could this be a way forward?
I agree that we are probably going to be the last generation to enjoy hydrocarbon burning personal transport-the age of the autonomous vehicle is almost here & the oil reserves are being consumed at ever increasing rate as the East embraces the internal combustion engine the same way we in the West did in the last century. Electricity is a wonderful energy provider but lets not forget the hidden costs/side effects of generating it. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in our universe.

[Fazerider]

The big drawback,as I see it, preventing long term strategic & coherent planning re energy, health & social services,etc etc is that we "elect" a party who are in power for the short term(4-5 years) between elections.
There is no doubt that we all now face unprecedented problems re overcrowding, diminishing air "quality", increased demand/competition for finite resources and global warming. I see no signs that our present bunch of politicians have any idea what to do about the really important issues that affect all of us & more so our children & grand children.
Whatever happened to the hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles that Honda trialled in California? These required liquid hydrogen as power source & the only exhaust was water vapour resulting from this clean burn vehicle? Could this be a way forward?
I agree that we are probably going to be the last generation to enjoy hydrocarbon burning personal transport-the age of the autonomous vehicle is almost here & the oil reserves are being consumed at ever increasing rate as the East embraces the internal combustion engine the same way we in the West did in the last century. Electricity is a wonderful energy provider but lets not forget the hidden costs/side effects of generating it. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in our universe.

Hydrogen is bulky and difficult to store and there isn't a supply of it that doesn't need a base stock of an existing combustable such as ethanol or natural gas... or a lot of electricity to split water into its constituents.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Generation and transmission losses mean only about 33% of the energy in the gas appears as electricity by the time it reaches the end user.

I'm no expert but I reckon that with the latest Combined Cycle Gas Turbine technology, well it's possible over 50% of the energy in the gas can be available as electrcity to the end user.

The big drawback,as I see it, preventing long term strategic & coherent planning re energy, health & social services,etc etc is that we "elect" a party who are in power for the short term(4-5 years) between elections.

  I think there a bigger problem.  Before the privatisation of the electricity industry it was a government responsibility to plan, provide and ensure we had a reliable and sustainable electricity industry with the highest possible level of service – and not to mention fair and reasonable charges.  The industry post ww2 came along leaps and bounds under what was basically socialist management.  We had an electricity industry the envy of the world.  Massive investment continued through the 60’s, 70’s and then with the Thatcher coming to power was more or less halted in the 80’s.


Then of course the Tories decided to privatised it all.  Apparently, no more government control and funding would be required.  Private companies would come along, invest, build and provide us with the infrastructure and service that we needed.


Of course, as predicted by anybody with half a brain it’s been huge disaster, that is apart from the rich Tory bastards who ripped us all off and got richer on the back of the electricity privatisation and the privatisation agenda in general.  It’s said that today the big energy bosses all have backup generators installed in their mansions.


Now, once leaders in generation, we are reliant (though still largely through political choice) on other countries to provide our infrastructure and service.  And the priority of those companies is not what we need but what will make them the most money, and enable them to take as much profit out of the UK as they possibly can.


Which brings us neatly back to that policy announcement.  Yup it’s just ink on paper.
 

[slimwilly]

Van, keep taking the tablets, you ain't right yet

[crickleymal]

I think VNA has a very valid point. Privatisation has done the industry no favours. It's a debatable point as to whether investment would have been funded if the industry was still nationalised though.

[fazerscotty]

The industry (as was many at the time) was privatised to reduce the effect the unions could have and the result - a distinct lack of strike action and disruption following privatisation.
Simples!
However, this thread has drifted slightly from the original post - I do not think I will be investing in either an electric car or bike. The cost will be stupid and not just in pound notes. It will be public transport for me after the last infernal combustion engine goes..........

[slappy]

The industry (as was many at the time) was privatised to reduce the effect the unions could have and the result - a distinct lack of strike action and disruption following privatisation.
Simples!
However, this thread has drifted slightly from the original post - I do not think I will be investing in either an electric car or bike. The cost will be stupid and not just in pound notes. It will be public transport for me after the last infernal combustion engine goes..........

But what will that public transport be using for power?
And if everybody does the same how many buses and trains will be needed at peak times?
Public transport will never be a feasible option, when I am on the early shift I leave home at 4.45am and never see a bus!