Date: 20-04-24  Time: 01:02 am

Author Topic: fork dilemma  (Read 2102 times)

cl1ve2004

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fork dilemma
« on: 28 June 2017, 07:33:39 pm »
trying to set forks up after full rebuild and oil change Castrol 5 wt oil but kept standard springs,,


1 ring showing is hard on normal riding until I do the bends at speed when it feels so solid and planted..


3 rings showing great on normal riding but not so planted at speed in bends as i accelerate rapidly (drifts wide)..


2 rings feels mushy and vague


Got devilsyam r6 shock mod which is brilliant :b  dilemma is r6 front forks or progressive/linear springs as both will be roughly the


same cost or try different weight oil as first port of call..


Any input welcome..ps 13.5 stone with the gear on.. sag etc set ok...

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #1 on: 28 June 2017, 07:56:12 pm »
After having the R6 shock done on mine, I thought I was starting to be able to detect some flex in the standard front forks, as the rear shock enabled me to push the bike harder. So I went with the R1 fork conversion, and I don't notice anything like that now.

cl1ve2004

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #2 on: 28 June 2017, 08:09:12 pm »
thanks for input thought about the r1 conversion but for me thats just a bit too much work involved.the r6 is basically a straight swap.


was thinking any flex with r6 fork should be reduced as the travel is shorter??



I know this topics been covered many times on this site and its down to personal choice and technical ability I suppose...




Hedgetrimmer

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #3 on: 28 June 2017, 09:03:48 pm »
I don't have any technical ability. I just let Luke (devilsyam) supply and fit it all  :lol

cl1ve2004

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #4 on: 28 June 2017, 09:07:49 pm »
Ha Ha my kind of mechanics too !!! :rollin

celticbiker

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #5 on: 28 June 2017, 09:18:06 pm »
You could sort that with a 10w (actually a 15 cst because you cant rely on the w number) fork oil, raise the ride height at the rear by 1 mm at the shock and probably 2 more clicks on the rebound damping at the rear.
If you haven't already, dropping the front by 5mm will help too.
As for springs, what weight are you with all your gear? I'm 110 kg and require a .995kg/mm spring. The oem springs are no where near stiff enough at .89kg/mm.
Same at the rear, stock is 450lb/mm and my requirement is 600lb/mm. This is why I wonder whether an r6 shock is up to the job on much heavier bike.
This is the set up I went with on my 8
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=22664.msg263342#msg263342
« Last Edit: 28 June 2017, 09:19:47 pm by celticbiker »
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Hedgetrimmer

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #6 on: 28 June 2017, 09:26:30 pm »
This is why I wonder whether an r6 shock is up to the job on much heavier bike.



The way the bike handles since having mine done suggests it is. Done about 30k miles on it and still no sign of it giving up either. Lots of other folks swear by it too. I'm not saying it's the most ideal item for these bikes, as I've only experienced the standard, a Hagon and the R6 ones, but it certainly improves on those other two, and you have to wonder why Yamaha considered their standard fit to be up to the job.

cl1ve2004

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #7 on: 28 June 2017, 09:34:15 pm »
88kg for me fully geared up...


I think that tweaking the rear is my last option as the set up from devilsyam has massively improved the handling..


the heavier weight oil is my first option I reckon ;)  and cheaper than the others..

celticbiker

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #8 on: 28 June 2017, 09:47:18 pm »
This is why I wonder whether an r6 shock is up to the job on much heavier bike.



The way the bike handles since having mine done suggests it is. Done about 30k miles on it and still no sign of it giving up either. Lots of other folks swear by it too. I'm not saying it's the most ideal item for these bikes, as I've only experienced the standard, a Hagon and the R6 ones, but it certainly improves on those other two, and you have to wonder why Yamaha considered their standard fit to be up to the job.
There is no bigger fan of Yamaha than me (well maybe) but I've never had one that had decent oem shocks. First thing I do to any bike now is bin the shock and forks and replace with decent kit.
Compared to bespoke and properly set up suspension even the r1 set up feels like a budget bin set up.
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Hedgetrimmer

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #9 on: 28 June 2017, 10:11:17 pm »

There is no bigger fan of Yamaha than me (well maybe) but I've never had one that had decent oem shocks. First thing I do to any bike now is bin the shock and forks and replace with decent kit.


I don't think it's just Yamaha who fit budget suspension to new bikes either.

Quote
Compared to bespoke and properly set up suspension even the r1 set up feels like a budget bin set up.


I wouldn't know, mine have been given the K-Tech treatment - can't fault them  :D





Falcon 269

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #10 on: 28 June 2017, 11:28:51 pm »
Here's my take on it, having had several aftermarket shocks on my Fazer, together with K-tech modded Fazer forks and then K-tech modded R1 forks. :)

The stock shock is undersprung, poorly damped and usually dies after about 10k miles.  It can be refreshed and resprung, and revalved if that's what you want but the cost works out more than fitting an R6 shock with appropriate dogbones.

The R6 shock is much better quality than the Fazer OEM item but not quite as good as a quality aftermarket shock.  I've had Hyperpro and Ohlins on mine over the years but I now have the R6 version and frankly there's barely any discernible difference for fast road use.  Certainly not the way I ride these days. :)  Rider weight 70kgs not including kit.

The stock forks are fitted with dual rate springs which are too soft in the first part of their stroke and too stiff in the latter.  In addition, the hi-speed compression damping (non-adjustable, determined by the crude design of the valves) makes for a jarring ride which can't be fully dialled out with the damping adjuster, since they only alter low-speed damping response.  The rebound damping is too little which means that using thinner fork oil to improve the ride quality can lead to too little rebound damping, even with the adjusters on max.

I've tried OEM forks fitted with Hyperpro progressive springs and they are a worthwhile improvement over stock for a reasonable outlay.  Fully modded OEM forks (K-tech, Maxton, take your pick and pay your money) are a bigger step forward and the revalving resolves the issues mentioned above. 

R1 fork conversions usually alter the steering geometry (depends on what you do with the yokes and fork lengths), making the bike steeper and quicker to turn.  My R1 forks have K-tech internals which make for a quality ride in addition to the quicker steering response.  For heavier riders, the loss of a little ground clearance might be an issue but for me it's not been a problem.

So, what to recommend to the OP?  The R6 shock is as good as you need, IMHO.  I suggest you consider fitting linear rate springs appropriate to your weight (speak to K-tech, Maxton etc for advice) along with whatever fork oil and air gap they suggest.  Drop the forks through the yokes 10mm and see how it goes from there.  If you plan on keeping the Fazer, consider spending more on a complete fork revalve.  It will be worth it in the long run and will be as good for you as dropping time and money into an R1 front end with unmodded R1 forks.

Just my five pennyworth, of course. :)

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #11 on: 28 June 2017, 11:47:25 pm »
^^ smart-arse  :rolleyes




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cl1ve2004

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #12 on: 29 June 2017, 07:27:25 am »
thanks for all the advice guys...




I knew I'd get  a lot of opinions here..bloomin marvellous




got some 10wt oil in the garage as a stop gap then linear springs next month :b

5LV

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Re: fork dilemma
« Reply #13 on: 29 June 2017, 11:20:17 am »
bit late to the party, but........
unless you have changed the front springs you are wasting your time adjusting the forks as has been mentioned they are bi rate.................and both rates are crap (too soft in the initial phase, then too firm in the second).
get some linear springs (0.9 kg/mm if you want a base setting) and THEN fiddle about with your damping.