New clutch woes - help!

[tommyardin]

50k, yeah almost all city riding through London, lots and lots of slow speed stuff...

If the clutch centre and drum are badly worn (grooved) is it worth filing the worst of the grooves out (Or just reducing them) and remove any rough edges off the centre or drum and see if there is any marked improvement? if there is then it would indicate that the clutch assembly is Focced.


I know years ago we used to dress out any groves in the drum slots on my old BSA Super Rocket and the Norton Dommy 99 I had.


It can certainly give a few more thousand miles out of the assembly, the downside is that as the slots will be that much wider than the tongues on the plates it will cause the plates to rattle and of course wear quicker because of the hammering effect of the loose fitting tongues or lugs. but it should give you a summers worth of riding and a project for next winter replacing the whole assembly.
You might find that a Dremel with a small grind stone would be better on the clutch centre and a file for the drum, I personally would remove the whole clutch from the bike and work in a vice if you have access to one .
   

[Arfa]

Swapped clutch cable today. Also noticed chain a spot slack, tightened that up to 45cm play. Still no different. Fine when cold, and fine after you pile on for a few miles with no gear changes. But heading through central London, stop start, filtering low speed, lots of clutch work, bam, pretty much impossible to clunk it up out of 1st.

However, I did pull out the long push rod for inspection, wasn't warped, but the end that pokes out by sprocket had some corrosion preventing it slide through the oil seal. Dunno if the problem but probably won't help. Ordered another nonetheless.

I've ordered some new steel plates too. Will dismantle clutch again next weekend and try those, and more thoroughly check out for wear on clutch basket/box - possibly file it down a spot if needed. Will report back.

[unfazed]

Put the standard springs back in

[darrsi]

Swapped clutch cable today. Also noticed chain a spot slack, tightened that up to 45cm play. Still no different. Fine when cold, and fine after you pile on for a few miles with no gear changes. But heading through central London, stop start, filtering low speed, lots of clutch work, bam, pretty much impossible to clunk it up out of 1st.

However, I did pull out the long push rod for inspection, wasn't warped, but the end that pokes out by sprocket had some corrosion preventing it slide through the oil seal. Dunno if the problem but probably won't help. Ordered another nonetheless.

I've ordered some new steel plates too. Will dismantle clutch again next weekend and try those, and more thoroughly check out for wear on clutch basket/box - possibly file it down a spot if needed. Will report back.

45cm play 

[vinnyb]

 Yeah, it was draggin' on the ground. That's how he knew it was loose. what?

[darrsi]

Yeah, it was draggin' on the ground. That's how he knew it was loose. what?

A foot and a half play???

[vinnyb]

Maybe the split link split,    Don't ... He meant 45mm. We all know he meant 45mm. Now leave it

[tommyardin]

Maybe the split link split,    Don't ... He meant 45mm. We all know he meant 45mm. Now leave it

I personally think he just left out the "." between the 4 and the 5cm    (4.5cm) you are some wicked buggers in here
 

[darrsi]

Maybe the split link split,    Don't ... He meant 45mm. We all know he meant 45mm. Now leave it

I personally think he just left out the "." between the 4 and the 5cm    (4.5cm) you are some wicked buggers in here
 

No, that would still be 1.77 inches of play, instead of 17.7 inches.


I'll only settle for 4.5mm. 

[tommyardin]

Maybe the split link split,    Don't ... He meant 45mm. We all know he meant 45mm. Now leave it

I personally think he just left out the "." between the 4 and the 5cm    (4.5cm) you are some wicked buggers in here
 

No, that would still be 1.77 inches of play, instead of 17.7 inches.


I'll only settle for 4.5mm. 

Yeah that's what your partner said to me. 

[vinnyb]

You've humiliated Arfa into silence you cruel foccers. He's too embarrassed to even come back on to explain what he meant to say.

[Arfa]

You orrible lot, could have been worse, could have been 45m of play...

[Arfa]

Quick update on this clutch saga, after a big bag of parts from Fowlers turned up:


Replaced push rod (and oil seal by sprocket). Old one was corroded by sprocket which appeared may have hindered movement and had a dimples worn either end.. Seemed to help a bit, but still a pain to get into neutral when hot.


Next I replaced the steel clutch plates (with some new TRW ones) and thrust rod in clutch basket. TBH thrust rod wasn't too bad. Old steel plates were very blue in places, so probably should have been replaced anyway. Whilst there, I inspected in more detail the clutch basket for notching by the old steel plates - there was a little but not too bad. I gave it a light file down anyway to make it nice and smooth. However, after all that the clutch sticking was worse! Couldn't get it into neutral at all, not even when cold!


I then swapped the EBC heavy duty springs for some brand new genuine Yamaha springs. Clutch much, much lighter, no drag at all, slides in an out of gear and neutral super easily now. Even when riding slow round London, or out all day. However, it now slips a spot when I really accelerate hard... :-/


So, my suspicions are:-
New plates are thicker and the heavy springs are just too strong to release them enough - hence the drag.
Genuine springs are much lighter, so happily release the plates enough, but are too light - hence the slip.


My next plan is to try fitting half Genuine Springs and half EBC, 3 of each, offset evenly, to hopefully achieve a happy medium. Anyone else done this, or foresee any issues with this plan?

[Gnasher]

Put the standard springs back in

 

And ditch the EBC plates they're crap go OE job done.

[Dave48]

Yeah... Half yamaha "proper" springs & half EBC s***e-will make for some very interesting clutch operation-maybe you just like taking the clutch apart & experimenting? This topic has been discussed many times before & the consensus is "DITCH THE EBC & use the proper YAMAHA ones. Good luck
Motto for the day "Do it RIGHT-Do it ONCE.

[Fazerider]

My next plan is to try fitting half Genuine Springs and half EBC, 3 of each, offset evenly, to hopefully achieve a happy medium. Anyone else done this, or foresee any issues with this plan?

I did try that, though I’d bought springs that were probably far stiffer than the EBC ones.
It stopped the clutch slip, but I found the lever action was still too heavy so went back to 100% OE. The slip is only an issue for the first few miles, once the oil’s warmed up fully the problem goes.
If your EBC springs are only 30-50% stiffer than OE a mix of 3 of each will probably be a good solution.

[ponkster]

Are you sure you have the plates in the right order, especially the friction plate that comes after the anti-judder spring? This is a different diameter than ths rest. I had mine in the wrong place and my clutch coukd reach neutral but wouldn't disengage.

When you say the one after the spring is a different diameter do you mean thickness or the actual diameter of the 'friction plate disc' - I fitted my new friction plates and never noticed any odd ones .

[BBROWN1664]

Chain tension should be 30-40mm according to Yamaha. Personally I find the FZS very susceptible to getting the wrong tension. Too tight, it wines, Too loose and it clonks when you change gear.

[Arfa]

The half'n'half EBC/Yammy springs experiment didn't really work. Still dragged load when hot and still heavy on lever action. Gone back to all Yammy springs and just dealing with the clutch slip when cold. Seems to hold up alright when warmed up though. Couple of laps of Brands Indy circuit certainly got tyres and clutch warmed up enough to behave.

Did notice the EBC springs were longer than OEM ones, 39 vs 38 cm < sip  ;-) > And for some reason the Haynes books quotes normal length as 34mm!

Might try some other brands in future, see if i can find a half way house.