Date: 20-08-18  Time: 08:46 AM

Author Topic: Not starting crazy symptoms  (Read 2955 times)

Ross

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Not starting crazy symptoms
« on: 08 January 2017, 06:01:29 PM »
Hello,


A few months back having grown tired of my old VFR, I swapped it for a 2004 FZR 1000 with rethnal bars. Loved it but like my wife after a bit its started to drive me mad.....only kidding dear!!.


When I go to start it (the bike not the wife) all is good, it makes all the correct clicks and fires into life on all 4 cylinders. It then just dies and won't start again. It turns over but it just refuses to fire up.


If I leave it for a few hours it will start again but then just dies as before. I've replaced the plugs and checked the carbs are getting fuel which they are. It's got 40,000 on the clock and an unknown history, however it looks in great condition so someone has looked after it at some point.


I would be greatful for any ideas on how to resolve the issue


Cheers


Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #1 on: 08 January 2017, 06:41:32 PM »
Have you checked the battery? Always a good starting point?
Does sound like an electrical fault to me

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #2 on: 08 January 2017, 07:45:00 PM »
Does it have an immobiliser fitted? If so, from previous experience, I'd get that checked out.
If it has, search my previous threads and see if the symptoms are the same.


There's also lots of other useful tips from other forum users on that thread which you might want to check.


Good luck.

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #3 on: 08 January 2017, 08:05:57 PM »
Was the bike left unused for some time, if so it could be partially clogged pilot jets
When it starts it uses all the fuel in the pilot circuit. Then when left for a while it refills the pilot circuit and starts and stops again.




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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #4 on: 09 January 2017, 03:58:48 PM »
Sticky floats???


How much runs out when you open the carb drain?



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Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2017, 07:11:06 PM »
Thanks to all who replied.

It's not the battery and it's not been left for any more than 4 or 5 days, it's not got an immobiliser. Not sure where the carb drain is but I'll read up and see where that takes me. Thanks for the advice if anyone has any further thoughts please let me know.

Cheers

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2017, 08:12:28 PM »
If it has not been idle for a while then it is probably dirt in the float bowl that is being sucked up blocking the pilot jet.

Draining the float bowls on to white kitchen toweling to see if any dirt does come out.

No. 6 is the drain screw, not sure how easy it is to get at on the FZR



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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2017, 09:10:12 PM »
If it has not been idle for a while then it is probably dirt in the float bowl that is being sucked up blocking the pilot jet.

Draining the float bowls on to white kitchen toweling to see if any dirt does come out.

No. 6 is the drain screw, not sure how easy it is to get at on the FZR
I think it might have been a typing error as it shows his bike as a gen 1 and I don't think they made the fzr in 04 or he abbreviated fazer to fzr

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #8 on: 09 January 2017, 09:26:03 PM »
What are you doing with the choke lever?  I ask because the Thou is very sensitive to choke.  Are you leaving it on full choke after start-up?

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #9 on: 10 January 2017, 10:43:05 AM »
When shes stops working, check if you got spark, if not its the ignitor unit (black box under the seat) and if you can hear the fuel pump running if not could be the relay.
This could happen due a cracked solder joint as the parts expand due to the heat it stops making contact and the bike stops.
Most likely it will be the ignitor box aka CDI aka ECU.
If does are running as said before check your carbs.
If your bike as a factory alarm thats knowed to give some problems too.

unfazed

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #10 on: 10 January 2017, 07:55:07 PM »
Fzs1000 float bowl drain screws

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #11 on: 11 January 2017, 03:29:44 PM »
Thanks again for all your advice. The bike is a Fazer 1000, not as I stupidly typed an FZR


This is my latest situation.


I've tried many combinations with the choke it make no difference.


I emptied the float chambers nothing particularly nasty came out.


I checked The starter relay it's clicking over and holding


The fuel pump is running when attempting to start.


Does all this point to the ECU and is there a way to check if it's dud?


Anyone got any thoughts


Cheers


Ross




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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #12 on: 11 January 2017, 07:24:42 PM »
ECU failures are very rare and - to the best of my knowledge - it wouldn't start at all if the ECU were faulty.  Don't discount it completely but equally, don't jump to that conclusion right now. :)

You say the fuel pump is running when you're attempting to start.  Do you mean just the usual few clicks when you first turn on the ignition, or is the pump constantly trying to prime the carbs?  If it's the latter, it shouldn't do that ... once the float bowls are up to the correct level, the pump should shut down until the fuel level drops. 

Have you checked to see if you have a spark when attempting to restart after the initial start-stop-won't start sequence you described?  If you have a decent spark, it would point to a fuel issue.

When you say it starts then dies, do you mean the revs gradually decay until it stalls out?  Or does it just stop dead? 

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #13 on: 11 January 2017, 07:53:48 PM »
Way back when, I had several instances where the bike just stopped dead and wouldn't start again. Turned out to the Throttle Position Sensor was way out of alignment. Well, so the dealer told me. Certainly, once adjusted it never happened again.


On an old CBX550 (cor, remember those?) a similar problem was tracked to the coils breaking down at high temperatures, but modern bikes have way better build quality these days and the Fazer has two coils but something else may be breaking the connection as it heats up as has been suggested above. There are a number of white connectors all over the bike and they might be corroded. Start with the big white one under the tank on the near side. It's known to a be a problem... I was stranded for hours.

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #14 on: 11 January 2017, 09:40:36 PM »
Sorry I've not been as clear as I should have. When it starts, all 4 cylinders fire up for a couple of seconds then the revs drop and it cuts out regardless of what's happening with the throttle. It turns over after that but it won't fire up.


Cheers


Ross





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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #15 on: 11 January 2017, 10:38:40 PM »
What about the fuel pump and spark questions I asked?

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #16 on: 12 January 2017, 11:21:33 AM »
I'm surprised nobody has run through the starting technique, the FZS1000 is a little fickle especially in cold weather so a little 'knack' is required.
 Switch on the ignition, let the pump finish priming then move the choke lever about 15mm towards you. Stab the starter and the moment the engine fires give a little twist of the throttle, just for a second. The revs will then rise fairly rapidly, once it gets to about 3,000rpm (it does so very quickly) move the choke lever away from you just a nadge until it settles at about 2200rpm or so. Ride off and knock choke off after a couple of hundred yards.
 This is how I've started mine almost every day for the last 5 years, the only real trick is sussing when the weather is cold enough to use the choke at all, in warmer weather it doesn't need any (my bike is Ivanised).
 

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #17 on: 12 January 2017, 11:38:40 AM »
Good post, SiPie.  Exactly what I was hinting at when I asked about choke use.  I wondered if Ross was using too much of it or maybe too used to FI'ed VFR sorting its cold-start fuelling automatically.

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #18 on: 12 January 2017, 02:47:28 PM »
Falcon, Pieman,


Thanks for your help.


I've given the starting procedure a few attempts but no joy.


Falcon, the pump dosent run when I fire it up.


Today I noticed when the ignition is turned on there is what I can only describe as a faint crackling noise coming from the the unit the ignition barrel is located in. If I lightly touch the wiring loom coming out of the bottom I can feel very light vibration. To me it sounds and feels like electrical arcing.


Is that a common issue?




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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #19 on: 12 January 2017, 10:59:52 PM »
Most likely the EXUP servo motor which operates when the ignition is switched on.

Is your choke cable intact, check it by looking in from the left side of the carbs and operate the choke lever, you should see a lever operating and push out the choke plunger.

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #20 on: 13 January 2017, 08:28:52 AM »

Today I noticed when the ignition is turned on there is what I can only describe as a faint crackling noise coming from the the unit the ignition barrel is located in. If I lightly touch the wiring loom coming out of the bottom I can feel very light vibration. To me it sounds and feels like electrical arcing.


Is that a common issue?

Yes, it is.  Ignition switch problems are quite common - certainly moreso than ECU trouble - and it could give the symptoms you describe.

What unfazed said about the EXUP servo making a crackling noise is true but that wouldn't cause starting or running issues.  The servo lives under the tank and over the top of the motor towards the left side. However, you're confident that the noise and vibration you've detected is coming from the ignition switch or associated wiring, you've probably found the culprit. :)

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #21 on: 16 January 2017, 12:48:46 PM »
Thanks Falcon and Unfazed

Before I started on the ignition switch replacement I though I would check if it was the EXUP servo and lo and behold Unfazed was spot on, I felt like a right chump, still at least I've not ripped out the ignition. I've checked all the wiring and I think after Several days tinkering this has got me beat.

If anyone can recommend a bike mechanic in the Edinburgh area I would be very greatful.

Cheers

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #22 on: 16 January 2017, 03:04:05 PM »
Firstly thanks to you all for helping out a new owner.

Here's a short update.

I took one of the plugs out to check the spark as a last look before calling in a mechanic, amazingly it fired up on three cylinders and ran. I quickly put the plug back in and it ran on all 4 cylinders all be it sounding very rough. I'm delighted it's running but no further forward. I've started it a few times since and it fired up and ran every time.

Cheers

Ross

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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #23 on: 17 January 2017, 12:06:03 AM »
If the fuel pump isn't priming every (or most) times, I would have a look there.


I should rattle a few times every time the ignition is turned on after it has stood a while.


May be getting a slow gravity fill but not enough to run properly.


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Re: Not starting crazy symptoms
« Reply #24 on: 21 April 2017, 07:29:03 AM »
Have you sorted the starting problem.?
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