General Election 8th June

[lew600fazer]

So do these individuals have any influence on what they tell the government to DO!!!!
Everyone agrees that newspapers play a crucial role in British democracy, even if they disagree what that role is.
This week the Press Gazette published the results of the National Readership Survey. I have used these results – for both print and online – to draw up tables with readerships and information about owners and political orientation. Almost 78 per cent of our press is owned by a handful of mostly foreign-based billionaires.
Our newspapers like to paint their own role as heroic – they are the brave defenders of democracy who hold our elected representatives to account. Watergate is the archetype of this kind of journalism and it does occur now and again in the UK but it is rare.
Too often, far from protecting our democracy, our papers subvert it. In his Inquiry, Lord Leveson quoted some lines from Tom Stoppard’s Night and Day. Milne: “No matter how imperfect things are, if you’ve got a free press everything is correctable, and without it everything is concealable.” Ruth: “I’m with you on the free press. It’s the newspapers I can’t stand.”
In a free press, the nature of the newspapers matter very much.
The nature of a paper is set by its owner. Press barons wield far more power and influence than all but a very few MPs and have, unsurprisingly, used it to further their own interests.
Since 2010, the barons have pushed the highly contentious argument that there is no alternative to austerity (for other people, not for them or those close to them), and have largely ignored the stories which historians will doubtless note – the widening social divisions and the swelling numbers at food banks, the 21st century’s soup kitchens.
Newspapers exercise power and influence in a number of ways. It is not just that they have a megaphone which lets them dominate the public debate. They also have privileged access to politicians. And one of their most powerful forms of influence is the ability to effectively set the political agenda for the other media and more widely, in parliament, the workplace, the kitchen and the pub.
In the terms of political theory, the press barons impose the elite’s cultural hegemony. As Martin Kettle has argued, the answer to the old 1970’s question – ‘Who governs Britain?’ – is now, in important respects, the press barons. The most recent example of their power – and arrogance – is how they have contemptuously ignored the Leveson Inquiry findings and the subsequent decision of the elected House of Commons.
Newspapers put great store by the concept of editorial independence. Sometimes, it is a reality. The Lebedevs, for example, own papers – the Independent and the Evening Standard – which take markedly different political stances.
Too often, however, editorial independence is a sham. Proprietors choose editors who they know share their views. Editors know well what is expected of them without the need for a proprietor to actively interfere.
Rupert Murdoch’s candour at the Leveson Inquiry was revealing. He said that if someone wanted to know his opinion on a subject they should just read the leader in the Sun.
UK press weekly print and on-line readership (for papers over 1 million) in March 2013

Newspaper(s)	Combined print and online readership (In brackets print alone)	Effective owner/s	Information about effective owner/s	Political orientation of newspaper/s	% of  combined print and online (Print alone)
The Sun/The Sun on Sunday	13,674,000 (12,765,000)	Rupert Murdoch	Billionaire. Lives in US. Alleged tax avoider.	Supported Tories in 2010	18.6% (20.7%)
The Mail/ Mail on Sunday	12,188,000 (9,534,000)	Lord Rothermere	Billionaire. Lives in France. Non-domiciled for UK tax	Supported Tories in 2010	16.5% (15.5%)
Metro	7,986,000 (7,597,000)	Lord Rothermere	Billionaire. Lives in France.  Non-domiciled for UK tax	Supported Tories in 2010	10.8% (12.3%)
Mirror/Sunday Mirror/ People	7,874,000 (7,063,000)	Trinity Mirror plc	Public Limited Company	Supported Labour in 2010	10.7% (11.4%)
The Guardian/The Observer	5,342,000 (2,898,000)	Scott Trust Ltd	A company with purpose “to secure  Guardian’s independence”	Supported Lib Dems in 2010	7.3% (4.7%)
Telegraph/ Sunday Telegraph	4,998,000 (3,128,000)	David and Frederick Barclay	Billionaires. Live on private island near Sark. Alleged tax avoiders.	Supported Tories in 2010	6.8% (5.1%)
The Times/ Sunday Times	4,608,000 (4,418,000)	Rupert Murdoch	Billionaire. Lives in US. Alleged tax avoider.	Supported Tories in 2010	6.3% (7.2%)
The Independent/ i/Independent on Sunday	4,002,000 (2,770,000)	Alexander (father)and Evgeny (son) Lebedev	Alexander is a billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in the UK	Supported anti-Tory tactical voting in 2010	5.4% (4.5%)
London Evening Standard	3,850,000 (3,443,000)	Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev	Alexander is billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in UK	Supported Tories in 2010	5.2% (5.6%)
Daily Express/Sunday Express	3,118,000 (2,756,000)	Richard Desmond	Billionaire pornographer. Alleged tax avoider.	Supported Tories in 2010	4.2% (4.5%)
Daily Star/Daily Star Sunday	2,972,000 (2,873,000)	Richard Desmond	Billionaire pornographer. Alleged tax avoider.	Supported Tories in 2010	4.0% (4.7%)
Daily Record/ Sunday Mail	1,719,000 (1,527,000)	Trinity Mirror plc	Public limited company	Supported Labour in 2010	2.3% (2.5%)
Financial Times	1,339,000    (928,000)	Pearson plc	Public limited company	Supported Tories in 2010	1.8% (1.5%)
TOTALS	73,670,000 (61,700,000)

Readership of UK press (for papers over 1 million) in March 2013 by effective owners

Effective owner(s)	%  of combined print and online (print alone)
Lord Rothermere	27.3       (27.
Rupert Murdoch	24.9       (27.9)
Trinity Mirror plc	13.0       (13.9)
Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev	10.6       (10.1)
Richard Desmond	8.2        (9.2)
Scott Trust	7.3       (4.7)
David and Frederick Barclay	6.8       (5.1)
Pearson plc	1.8       (1.5)

Over a quarter (27.3 per cent) of the press is owned by Lord Rothermere and 24.9 per cent by Rupert Murdoch  – between them these two men have over 50 per cent of the printed press.
Over three quarters (77.8 per cent) of the press is owned by a handful of billionaires. There are only 88 billionaires among the 63 million people in the UK and most of the barons do not even live in the UK.
I am no fan of Michael Gove’s fact-based curriculum, but it is true that knowing certain facts is key to understanding. All students of British politics need to know who owns our press.

[dickturpin]

Does he or she have a part time job??simple question. and as I said my lad was happy to wear Tescos own clothing brands and save a few quid. He also only had hand me done mobile phones not state of the art. Sorry but there is no way any student should be racking up £50k in debt going through Uni.
When my lad was thinking about getting married  he mentioned how Liz was talking about how they would have to pull together to help clear her student debts £28k , my advice was to tell her they are her debts not theirs , thankfully he took that on board and went their separate ways.
Call me what you want but todays youth want everything on a plate , I see it with my Grand daughter and nieces & nephews children. get things far to easy in life and want mum & dad to pay for it.

Don't disagree Lew
Yes the person I know had a part time job but the point of my post isn't a debate about the person I know compared to your son, its the fact that very many students are coming out with very large debts and politicians are now suggesting that fees can be stopped.
It is inevitable that three or four years living in London with no help with accommodation costs plus £9k yearly tuition fees plus living costs travel etc that debts will accrue. I don't have a problem with that. What bugs me is that politicians can offer to end it at a stroke!
How can that be correct for the few years of students that have accepted the debt?
Imagine if you or I had paid heavily for our education only to be told that subsequent years would be free but your debt would remain.
Not that I'm expecting any of Jeremy's bribes to come to fruition! 

[Hedgetrimmer]

Jesus, what're Labour gonna do if they win, make Monopoly money legal currency?!

[Dudeofrude]

Jesus, what're Labour gonna do if they win, make Monopoly money legal currency?!

They wouldn't need too. Our so called 'debt' isn't really money. It's just numbers on a screen. We don't even have any proof that we are in debt. We are just told we are and that we have to suffer to pay it back even though it wasn't our choice to get into debt I'm the first place.
The arse holes that got us here are no worse off than they were before the crash, if anything they are probably richer.
Have you ever stopped to think who we are supposed to actually owe all this money too? And what would happen if we just told them to ram it? Would we get bailiffs at the borders? Would they repossess Buckingham palace?
As for the deficit, do we actually know why it's sucks a wide gap?  Isn't it entirely possible that the government gets more than enough tax and other events to balance the books but they are too busy paying themselves extortionate amounts of money so they pass the buck down to us. Why take a 20000 pay cut each this month when they can just shut down a school/medical centre/library.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Oh I don't disagree with the rhetoric. Trouble is, politicians prove time after time that rhetoric's all it is, no matter what flavour they are.


Good grief, all this politics! Must go and lie down for a bit! 

[fazersharp]

Almost everything corbin does makes him look like a blundering fool.
Just seen him on tv saying everyone loves football just like I do and then trys to kick a ball - stands on it and almost falls over, like he has never kicked a ball in his life, the man is an unelectable joke.
Cue VNA to come on pointing out that he HAS been elected   

[noggythenog]

Good to be back....since I haven't ridden my  yet i'll have to start here.

Seems to be allot of decision making about who to vote for is based on Wars and Terrorism.........ok whilst they are both bad I believe that they will be present no matter who is in power.

Seems to me to make more sense to vote on the basis of domestic things that affect us each and every day.

I used to be one of those guys who just didn't vote because there was no point and I didn't like any of the choices.....but apparently this is a bad thing to do.......so this year I voted......but really both labour and Conservatives are shite.......I basically voted for the one that I disliked the least.......suppose some choice is better than none.

Also all this bashing of the party leaders is a bit naïve.....they represent a party.....who gives a foc what they personally stand for so long as the party generally has what you need...they are puppets....to personalise something so big seems a bit weird.

Tell you what affect me the most each day....not irish terrorism or the war in Syria......nope......what affects me every day is my Job..........and if you are a normal working person then it is crazy to vote Tory....I think 5 year olds even know that. We are supposed to feel guilty under Tory about even wanting a decent job with decent hours and good conditions.

My daughters future also plays heavily on my mind.....since she wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth then she also wont get any favours from me voting Tory.

That's how simple it is to me.

[lew600fazer]

Well just watched the Sky news May v Corbyn , live audience and then they both hadto face the ARSEHOLE Paxman
 Labour guy gets my vote , time May joined the ranks of failed PM's move over Cameron thanks for keeping the seat warm.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

  I’ve never in my life voted Tory and I never will.
And, of course, we now know that it was Theresa May that resided over an open door policy for Libyan UK residents with known terrorists links to travel between Libya and the UK in 2011. 
Why on earth would anybody want this lunatic as their Prime Minister.

[Dave48]

  I’ve never in my life voted Tory and I never will.
And, of course, we now know that it was Theresa May that resided over an open door policy for Libyan UK residents with known terrorists links to travel between Libya and the UK in 2011. 
Why on earth would anybody want this lunatic as their Prime Minister.

Likewise will NEVER EVER vote Tory,and theres no shortage of lunatics out there

[YamFazFan]

Almost everything corbin does makes him look like a blundering fool.
Just seen him on tv saying everyone loves football just like I do and then trys to kick a ball - stands on it and almost falls over, like he has never kicked a ball in his life

  It's so funny when they try to pull off stunts like that and fail

 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Can't say I'm following this too closely. 

  What is clear is that there is a real thirst today for the kind of reasonable policies being put forward by Corbyn’s team.
What absolutely infuriates me is the Labour MP’s who deny the will of the membership of their party and try to appease the right-wing press in this country.
Labour will probably still lose this election (hey maybe not, and let’s hope not), and we will need to be clear when that (if) happens why it has happened.  It will be the second general election in a row that the Blairite bastards in the Labour party have denied their members and the electorate a proper Labour government, not to mention the bloody BREXIT farce.
On the other hand, if things progress as they are, well things could get interesting.  A minority Tory government being voted down by issue by issue by Labour/Liberal/SNP cooperation.  Or a Labour/SNP or Labour/Liberal government.
Ooooooo.
 

[steve 10562cc]

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%, no coal, power cuts, 3 day working week so short wages, rubbish piling up in the streets, and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government.They tried the same policies then and they didn't work borrowed billions just to keep our country afloat. Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did. 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%

I remember the early 1990’s when under the Tories the base rate (never mind the mortgage rate) hit 15%

no coal

By the end of the 1990’s we were still burning massive amounts of coal but it was all imported.  Our workers were thrown on the scrap heap and we then ran our country on expensive imported coal.

power cuts

The Tories privatised our electricity industry.  We now as a nation it seems are incapable of building a power station.  We are seriously short of base load.  Power cuts?  They ain’t far away.

and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government

You know the Tories destroyed our industries.   Lock stock and barrel.  They took a sledge hammer to them and got the working man on his knees.   Many ordinary people today live in a world of zero hour contacts, tax credits (cos the fucking stinking rich companies that pay no tax get off without paying a living wage) and food banks.  My bleedin taxes go to people in work.  I subsidise the rich, cos the rich who don’t pay tax don’t pay a living wage.


As for the unions.  Well Nissan’s best plant in Europe, if not the world is Sunderland.  So what has changed?  Management attitude – that’s what has changed.  It’s pretty much the same workforce, it’s still unionised, but there are now bosses that respect and treat their workers with respect.  There is no such thing as poor industrial relations – only bad management.


 

Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did.

 
So no Steve, I won’t be buying your Tory lies.


I’ve never voted Tory, and never ever will vote for the fucking scum bag Tories.

[mtread]

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%, no coal, power cuts, 3 day working week so short wages, rubbish piling up in the streets, and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government.They tried the same policies then and they didn't work borrowed billions just to keep our country afloat. Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did.

I  remember the 1990s when a certain May type tory politician in power, mortgage rate hit 15%, we joined then had to quickly leave the Euro (then the ERM). The country was run by a mad woman under a personality cult whose ideology was to provoke the unions and bring them to submission. They also sold all of the council houses, so nobody now has anywhere to live. Don't fall for the same austerity s**t this one is peddling otherwise they'll be no NHS, no public services and we'll all be on zero hours contracts. Meanwhile the rich will just get richer.

[fazersharp]

They also sold all of the council houses,

Who to ?

[Grahamm]

They also sold all of the council houses,

Who to ?

A lot of them have ended up in the hands of rich bastards like this one who are now letting them out to the same people who would have been living in a Council House, if such things existed any more.

But now the tenants are paying jacked up rents (which are more than a mortgage would cost on that property) and will never have anything to show for it because they can't afford to save enough to get a deposit.

So all they're doing is paying *someone else's* mortgage!

[Dave48]

Britain after WW2 was heavily in debt to the USA, & the Labour government of Attlee etc was faced with the enormous task of generating export income at the same time replacing our bomb damaged and slum housing stock,simultaneouly implementing the NHS. Just look at documentary film footage of the "living" conditions faced by millions in our decaying inner cities. The wealth of the country was then,as now, in the hands of a small percentage of the people. They believed things would go on as prewar with our role as head of empire. Meanwhile many of our former conquest nations decided that they wanted independence. The so-called losers in WW2 namely West Germany & Japan that had been heavily damaged by bombing had their economies rebuilt from scratch with US dollars-if there was a clear winner of this conflict it was America whose industries were jump-started to supply(lend-lease) Britain.
All empires rise & fall. What we need to do is work out our role in the present world economic climate which is a little difficult since we have consistently exported our jobs,industries & skills,particularly since Thatchers "sale of the century" began in the late 1970s.
What we must also consider is what sort of society do we - the majority-want. What do we value? Is it the quick short term sell off & profit or building something sustainable that we can pass on to our children.
Inequality in my country is rife & parallels the conditions in Victorian times.
The sad fact that we all must face is you cannot have something for nothing & we cannot live permanently in debt either individually or as a nation.
But it sickens me when the fat cats are rewarded for exploiting the tax laws(which they make of course) & living off the efforts of the taxpayers(us) at the same time telling us to tighten our belts & face the austerity they decree.
I am no lover of privilege & class myself as a republican.  If we truly are in such a dire situation then let the MPs, Lords etc & The Royals start by setting the rest of us an example.
My vote is with Corbyn as the alternative is unspeakable.

[steve 10562cc]

VNA.  Just buy Corbyns lies my actual opinion of ALL politicians is you know they are feeding us bulls**t and lies because they are talking. As a pensioner Corbyns policies would leave me better off,  but it's the younger working people that will pay for it in a few years time. There's an old saying you don't get ought for nought.

[fazersharp]

I thoug

They also sold all of the council houses,

Who to ?

A lot of them have ended up in the hands of rich bastards like this one who are now letting them out to the same people who would have been living in a Council House, if such things existed any more.

But now the tenants are paying jacked up rents (which are more than a mortgage would cost on that property) and will never have anything to show for it because they can't afford to save enough to get a deposit.

So all they're doing is paying *someone else's* mortgage!

Let me move you a little to the centre away from the left tainted view.
They were sold to people actually living in them at the time, not only that but they were sold at a massive discount to the tenant depending on how long they had been renting.   

[HarryHornby]

I always vote because if you don't vote you can't moan, IMO.  But I'm really struggling this time round.

I'm not a Labour voter but I do like some of what Corbyn is saying.  I am all for re-nationalising the railways, I don't think they should be run for a profit and to pay shareholders, all money should be pumped back into making the railways a great service.  I disagree with tuition fees to a point.  £27k of debt for a three year course is a HUGE sum of money.  If my credit card said that I would be shitting myself and wondering how the foc I'm going to pay it back.  BUT, I really don't see how Corbyn can suddenly offer to cancel all the fees, just like that I doubt very much that in what would effectively be 2 months post election to the start of the new University year that they could organise the money for the Unis.  I think lower fees subsidised by the government maybe, rather than completely free.

The main reason I can't vote Labour though is that they will just spend to keep people happy and we will just get further and further in debt and the deficit will get bigger and bigger, it's been shown so many times over the years.  He says about raising corporation tax but I think we should freeze that.  We need to encourage companies to come to us, especially with Brexit coming up, we shouldn't be putting them off.

I don't know what to make of the Tories, their manifesto was a bit wishy washy.  They have reduced the deficit, not as much as they said but I bet it's a harder job than it is on paper.  It's the same for all politicians, saying what you are going to do and then actually doing it when faced with the day to day are totally different things.  But we aren't going to get into surpless by random spending on things like giving free tuition fees.

What does worry me is the amount of house building in the South East (where I live).  We are getting thousands of homes built in the town where I live, with more on the cards and yet we still have no more Drs, Dentists or road infrastructure to cater for it.  The torries keep forcing homes in our area and that really puts me off voting for them.

Immigration, I do believe it needs cutting to sensible levels for the reasons mentioned above about homes.  We have a big population growth anyway, sitcking another couple of hundred thousand on top of that a year can't be sustainable the way it is going.  I also want to see a move away from letting in unskilled workers and reforming the benefit laws to make it more worthwhile for our unemployed to work  over living on benefits.  People say these migrants contribute to the country's coffers but I'm not so sure how much.  Most I see are on minimum wage and as a result won't pay any tax.  We employ a lot of EU cleaners and handy men at my place of work.  I doubt any pay tax.  We need to make it worthwhile for our benefits people to take on these jobs.  It's human nature to want the bigger pay packet each month and in reality that should be from work and not benefits.  Sadly, for unskilled work, benefits currently pays more, or not enough difference to make some want to get out of bed.

If our unemployed did more unskilled work we wouldn't need the migrants to fill in the gaps and if we didn't have the migrants we possibly wouldn't need so many houses or extra people using the NHS etc etc..... yeah that's a very basic view but you get the idea.

We had a friend of a friend, made redundant from a fairly decent job.  Went to Argos to get some work to fill the gaps rather than claim from the state.  Turned out it was better for him and his family to go on benefits while he found a new job, so he did.  It shouldn't be like that.

Anyway, housing is a big local issue for me, so I might vote for the independent candidate in our region who wants to fight the housing.

I've got a week to go though and I suspect I won't have fully made up my mind until that tick goes in the box. 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Let me move you a little to the centre away from the left tainted view.
They were sold to people actually living in them at the time, not only that but they were sold at a massive discount to the tenant depending on how long they had been renting.   

  And your point is caller?
 
You know in the wee town in which I grew up and still reside in, the wealthy families used to be the families with the businesses, such as the fishing boat owners, the dairy farmers, the butchers, the hotelier and café/restaurateur etc.  Today it’s generally the same families, some of them though not all of them still have those old businesses, but what most of them if not all of them have are large property portfolios, comprising mainly of one and two bedroom flats let out to the DSS.  The money, the profit they make is phenomenal.  Indeed the ones that still have their old businesses, well often it’s just a side line to the main money, that is their DSS property empires.



Whereas we once had council houses providing high quality housing for ordinary people at low cost.  We now have often low-quality housing provided by DSS landlords at eye watering rip off prices paid for by you and I.


So not only do my/our taxes subsidise the big national and international won’t pay their workers a living wage tax dodging bastards (tax credits and the like) but I/we then have to pay folks hugely inflated rent to their filthy rich DSS landlords.


Talk about fucked up!


I need to stop.  I could go on and write pages and pages about how fucked up this country has become under successive neo liberal governments (Tony Bliar’s Labour government included).


We are getting seriously screwed.  And if you vote Tory, you are just asking to be screwed even harder.


 Steve, as for the young – what future?  Electing a Corbyn government is a chance to turn the tide against the neoliberal rot and give the young folks a future.   

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I've got a week to go though and I suspect I won't have fully made up my mind until that tick goes in the box. 

It's important to remember how the system works (it sucks), and the most imnportant thing in my opinion is keeping the filthy thieving bastard Tories out.  It may not be a matter of voting for who you want, but voting to make sure you don't get what you really don't want.

Hope this helps 

https://www.tactical2017.com/

[fazersharp]

I always vote because if you don't vote you can't moan, IMO.  But I'm really struggling this time round.

I've got a week to go though and I suspect I won't have fully made up my mind until that tick goes in the box. 

I feel that I have to do my citizens duty to vote but In past years I have carried out my duty and spoilt the ballot paper by writing "none of the above"
I like to vote because there is a bar in the town hall where the polling station is 

[YamFazFan]

I like to vote because there is a bar in the town hall where the polling station is 

  I always seem to end up in the pub just past the village hall on election night as well



 I was reading in the paper today that the audience on last nights BBC1 election debate programme was apparently representative of the general population .

If that's the case then Labour are home and dry with a landslide.