General Election 8th June

[Grahamm]

I'll never vote corbyn as long as he got an hole up his ass.
he has to go before labour get my vote.

Which party is your MP at the moment? If it's a Tory and the Labour candidate has the best chance of beating them, not voting or voting for someone else is the same as voting Tory.

Vote tactically to stop the Tories getting a majority and *then* you can worry about who leads the party.

[Grahamm]

especially after other recent gaffs by, and divisions between, Labour members.

Oh yes, like Diane Abbot saying new Police Officers costing £300,000 instead of £3,000,000 and that being all over the news for a whole day.

By the way, did you hear about Philip Hammond get the price of the HS2 rail link wrong by 20 *BILLION* pounds? No? I wonder why not...?

So what do you do if you don't trust Labour on defence or the economy, but you don't trust the Tories for a fair society?

As I said in the post above: Vote Tactically to stop Kim Jong May getting an elected dictatorship.

[Dave48]

especially after other recent gaffs by, and divisions between, Labour members.

Oh yes, like Diane Abbot saying new Police Officers costing £300,000 instead of £3,000,000 and that being all over the news for a whole day.

By the way, did you hear about Philip Hammond get the price of the HS2 rail link wrong by 20 *BILLION* pounds? No? I wonder why not...?

So what do you do if you don't trust Labour on defence or the economy, but you don't trust the Tories for a fair society?

As I said in the post above: Vote Tactically to stop Kim Jong May getting an elected dictatorship.
[/quote


I have read & considered every post on this thread. Like many of my age I have seen so many changes politically,economically,socially in my 69 years.
I believe my country no longer has a clear sense of its role in the global economy. Our political institutions appear outdated & ineffectual. We , the ordinary citizens, are told to economise,tighten our belts,work harder with less job security,worse conditions of employment, & an uncertain old age(financially & health care provision). I have never known such a wide differential between the wealthy & the rest.
In my lifetime I can only think of one politician who made a lasting impact on the well being of the nation: Aneurin Bevan who formulated & implemented the NHS postwar.
I found myself watching the national news  becoming increasingly angry, outraged, disillusioned by what i saw & heard.
Most daily newspapers are a joke but many seem to lap it all up & believe everything they read simply because its the printed word.
i was very fortunate to be born into postwar Britain & have the advantage of a good upbringing,education through the state system,& free healthcare all at a time of more or less full employment.
Now I SHOULD exercise my democratic right & vote on June 8th-but who for & for what? I, like Hedgetrimmer, am confused. I am deliberately keeping my personal views on Ireland, & other shameful involvements in other countries affairs out of this debate but I have little or no faith in any of the present crop of politicians making any beneficial changes let alone keeping any so-called election promises!

[Grahamm]

Now I SHOULD exercise my democratic right & vote on June 8th-but who for & for what?

If you can't decide who to vote *for*, then figure out who you want to vote *against*.

Does your local MP represent your views? Look at http://www.theyworkforyou.com and see what their voting record is on the issues that matter to you. If you disagree with what they stand for, vote for the candidate that has the best chance of beating them.

[Grayo]

All Politicians are thieves and liars.

[lew600fazer]

Disagree they are not all arseholes, some are genuinely trying to do there best. An honest and hard working MP would be Frank Field  (Lab)

[Oldgit]

they are all looking for the easy life, all talk no commitment or action, just interested in the salary + expenses and of course the long holidays.
£76,000 a year plus all your housing and maintenance expenses + food + travel and funding to buy a nice wee property in Laaaaaandaaaaan that you and I will pay for and they will eventually then rent out once we have paid for it, and then they will buy another on our expenses. no don't vote for any of the bastards, FUCK THE LOT OF THEM

[dickturpin]

Really pissed about the tuition fee saga....if they are now ended then there is a band of about four years of students that carry debts of around £50k that students either side do not have....how can that be fair?
That's one hell of a burden to go into adulthood with....and they wonder why home ownership is slowing!!

[lew600fazer]

Really pissed about the tuition fee saga....if they are now ended then there is a band of about four years of students that carry debts of around £50k that students either side do not have....how can that be fair?
That's one hell of a burden to go into adulthood with....and they wonder why home ownership is slowing!!

£50 k student debt how are they managing to run up those debts. Most likely because they are on the piss and partying , designer clothes. Funny how my lad did a 4 year course, a year of which was spent in France and came out of Uni with absolutely no debts what so ever. Let me see now did he live at home while at Uni? no he shared a rented house with 5 mates  he met at Uni. Did the bank of mum & dad fund him all the way through Uni, no not entirely, we paid 50% of his tuition fees. Did he miss out on his social life while at Uni ? , no, because if it had tits he shagged it. Did he go hungry and have a crap diet?no, as he always was interested in cooking and was a foodie.
So you may ask how did he come out debt free. Simple before he even left school he had a Part time job in Sainsbury's and banked everything he earned, also  while at Uni he worked two part time jobs. Most students spend on average 12.5>14.5 hours a week in class so wtf are they doing the rest of the time, okay they will be doing home studies as well for a couple of hours after finishing Uni for the day. If my lad wanted clothes he went to Tescos or Asda , the designer gear was binned as he reckoned a £6.00 pair of Tescos own brand jeans covered his arse just as well as a £30 pair of Wranglers or Levi's, as he explained to me, you see dad   the £24 I saved on the jeans is my beer money or groceries etc! He did have one mate who came out with £37k debt and he was doing the same course. My lad got a Double 1st in French & European Business studies from Liverpool University. He then wanted to do  his Master degree which he did at Bordeaux University, they paid him €1500 a month while he studied there, he was being paid as he was teaching the French English as a foreign language for 6 hours a week. His mate who ran up£37k debt passed his  degree gaining I think the term is a Desmond as in 2.2. So as far as I am concerned running up£50k in debt is only achievable  if one is a party animal and also a lazy fecker.

[maddog04]

every time May is on TV she comes across a right thick twat and like the milk snatcher, gets the hump if anyone dares question her. Then we have Corbyn who comes across as articulate and caring......all the things she isn't. I know where my vote's going

And now we have the U turn on the dementia issue

[fazersharp]

every time May is on TV she comes across a right thick twat and like the milk snatcher, gets the hump if anyone dares question her. Then we have Corbyn who comes across as articulate and caring......all the things she isn't. I know where my vote's going

Why is it that corbin always talks with his head twisted to one side, is it just me who has notices that.

[lew600fazer]

every time May is on TV she comes across a right thick twat and like the milk snatcher, gets the hump if anyone dares question her. Then we have Corbyn who comes across as articulate and caring......all the things she isn't. I know where my vote's going

And now we have the U turn on the dementia issue

May be she has dementia as she is forgetful 12 months ago she said she was a Remainer before the referendum a month after it she became a Brexiteer

[Dave48]

Now I SHOULD exercise my democratic right & vote on June 8th-but who for & for what?

If you can't decide who to vote *for*, then figure out who you want to vote *against*.

Does your local MP represent your views? Look at http://www.theyworkforyou.com and see what their voting record is on the issues that matter to you. If you disagree with what they stand for, vote for the candidate that has the best chance of beating them.

Have been giving this a lot of thought last few days. May I find unspeakable(makes Thatcher seem almost human in comparison-whatever Maggies faults she clearly believed in what she said) May tests the water before making any utterance. Corbyn is being vilified in the gutter press (well 4 of them to my knowledge).
I have lived in the same house for 24 years & never once had a tory boy or girl knock on my door.
 I am voting labour because I hate what the conservative party are striving to do to my country.

[dickturpin]

Really pissed about the tuition fee saga....if they are now ended then there is a band of about four years of students that carry debts of around £50k that students either side do not have....how can that be fair?
That's one hell of a burden to go into adulthood with....and they wonder why home ownership is slowing!!

£50 k student debt how are they managing to run up those debts. Most likely because they are on the piss and partying , designer clothes. Funny how my lad did a 4 year course, a year of which was spent in France and came out of Uni with absolutely no debts what so ever. Let me see now did he live at home while at Uni? no he shared a rented house with 5 mates  he met at Uni. Did the bank of mum & dad fund him all the way through Uni, no not entirely, we paid 50% of his tuition fees. Did he miss out on his social life while at Uni ? , no, because if it had tits he shagged it. Did he go hungry and have a crap diet?no, as he always was interested in cooking and was a foodie.
So you may ask how did he come out debt free. Simple before he even left school he had a Part time job in Sainsbury's and banked everything he earned, also  while at Uni he worked two part time jobs. Most students spend on average 12.5>14.5 hours a week in class so wtf are they doing the rest of the time, okay they will be doing home studies as well for a couple of hours after finishing Uni for the day. If my lad wanted clothes he went to Tescos or Asda , the designer gear was binned as he reckoned a £6.00 pair of Tescos own brand jeans covered his arse just as well as a £30 pair of Wranglers or Levi's, as he explained to me, you see dad   the £24 I saved on the jeans is my beer money or groceries etc! He did have one mate who came out with £37k debt and he was doing the same course. My lad got a Double 1st in French & European Business studies from Liverpool University. He then wanted to do  his Master degree which he did at Bordeaux University, they paid him €1500 a month while he studied there, he was being paid as he was teaching the French English as a foreign language for 6 hours a week. His mate who ran up£37k debt passed his  degree gaining I think the term is a Desmond as in 2.2. So as far as I am concerned running up£50k in debt is only achievable  if one is a party animal and also a lazy fecker.

Unfortunately not true Lew
Someone close to me in this situation...not a party animal at all. 3 years in London with no student accommodation and £9k annual tuition fees plus accommodation plus living costs and occasional travel home puts them into this situation.

[Dave48]

Really pissed about the tuition fee saga....if they are now ended then there is a band of about four years of students that carry debts of around £50k that students either side do not have....how can that be fair?
That's one hell of a burden to go into adulthood with....and they wonder why home ownership is slowing!!

£50 k student debt how are they managing to run up those debts. Most likely because they are on the piss and partying , designer clothes. Funny how my lad did a 4 year course, a year of which was spent in France and came out of Uni with absolutely no debts what so ever. Let me see now did he live at home while at Uni? no he shared a rented house with 5 mates  he met at Uni. Did the bank of mum & dad fund him all the way through Uni, no not entirely, we paid 50% of his tuition fees. Did he miss out on his social life while at Uni ? , no, because if it had tits he shagged it. Did he go hungry and have a crap diet?no, as he always was interested in cooking and was a foodie.
So you may ask how did he come out debt free. Simple before he even left school he had a Part time job in Sainsbury's and banked everything he earned, also  while at Uni he worked two part time jobs. Most students spend on average 12.5>14.5 hours a week in class so wtf are they doing the rest of the time, okay they will be doing home studies as well for a couple of hours after finishing Uni for the day. If my lad wanted clothes he went to Tescos or Asda , the designer gear was binned as he reckoned a £6.00 pair of Tescos own brand jeans covered his arse just as well as a £30 pair of Wranglers or Levi's, as he explained to me, you see dad   the £24 I saved on the jeans is my beer money or groceries etc! He did have one mate who came out with £37k debt and he was doing the same course. My lad got a Double 1st in French & European Business studies from Liverpool University. He then wanted to do  his Master degree which he did at Bordeaux University, they paid him €1500 a month while he studied there, he was being paid as he was teaching the French English as a foreign language for 6 hours a week. His mate who ran up£37k debt passed his  degree gaining I think the term is a Desmond as in 2.2. So as far as I am concerned running up£50k in debt is only achievable  if one is a party animal and also a lazy fecker.

I left school after A levels and went into a management training position with a pharmaceutical distributor, one of my sisters went to Birmingham Uni aged 17 & my other sister went off to teacher training college at Southampton. My parents worked hard & sometimes really struggled financially but apart from giving us a good start in life, taught us to become independent. We all did paper rounds, gardening jobs,& worked every school holiday to save for things we wanted that our parents couldnt afford.
When I go through Selly Oak near the University  here in Birmingham all i see is streets full of parked students cars-eg Fiat 500s provided by bank of mum & dad. The students couldnt possibly do 3 years at uni & afford to buy & run their own car! Why do they need them-I guess majority dont go home every week & bus & rail service to city centre is excellent. I know they belong to students because they all f**k off in June/July until Sept.I know tuition fees are high but they all have plastic these days & very easy to run up debts-the banks like it of course since they have a "captive" future customer!
In the 60s aptitude got you a place at uni when society was a bit fairer than now. And county council grants were given to those who needed them. Now its mainly the rich who go.
I brought up my 2 sons on my own from the time they were 14 & 10 and they didnt sit around waiting for f*****g handouts-I wasnt in a position to buy them vehicles-I fed & clothed them and kept a roof over our heads-they have turned out alright.(perhaps in spite of me!!)

[lew600fazer]

Really pissed about the tuition fee saga....if they are now ended then there is a band of about four years of students that carry debts of around £50k that students either side do not have....how can that be fair?
That's one hell of a burden to go into adulthood with....and they wonder why home ownership is slowing!!

£50 k student debt how are they managing to run up those debts. Most likely because they are on the piss and partying , designer clothes. Funny how my lad did a 4 year course, a year of which was spent in France and came out of Uni with absolutely no debts what so ever. Let me see now did he live at home while at Uni? no he shared a rented house with 5 mates  he met at Uni. Did the bank of mum & dad fund him all the way through Uni, no not entirely, we paid 50% of his tuition fees. Did he miss out on his social life while at Uni ? , no, because if it had tits he shagged it. Did he go hungry and have a crap diet?no, as he always was interested in cooking and was a foodie.
So you may ask how did he come out debt free. Simple before he even left school he had a Part time job in Sainsbury's and banked everything he earned, also  while at Uni he worked two part time jobs. Most students spend on average 12.5>14.5 hours a week in class so wtf are they doing the rest of the time, okay they will be doing home studies as well for a couple of hours after finishing Uni for the day. If my lad wanted clothes he went to Tescos or Asda , the designer gear was binned as he reckoned a £6.00 pair of Tescos own brand jeans covered his arse just as well as a £30 pair of Wranglers or Levi's, as he explained to me, you see dad   the £24 I saved on the jeans is my beer money or groceries etc! He did have one mate who came out with £37k debt and he was doing the same course. My lad got a Double 1st in French & European Business studies from Liverpool University. He then wanted to do  his Master degree which he did at Bordeaux University, they paid him €1500 a month while he studied there, he was being paid as he was teaching the French English as a foreign language for 6 hours a week. His mate who ran up£37k debt passed his  degree gaining I think the term is a Desmond as in 2.2. So as far as I am concerned running up£50k in debt is only achievable  if one is a party animal and also a lazy fecker.

Unfortunately not true Lew
Someone close to me in this situation...not a party animal at all. 3 years in London with no student accommodation and £9k annual tuition fees plus accommodation plus living costs and occasional travel home puts them into this situation.

Explain to me what part of my post is NOT true I am describing what my son achieved and how he came out of UNI debt free. Why go to a London UNI then as surely you know living cost are through the roof down there. Yes that was 8 years since my lad was at UNI but he had sense enough to look in an area that would still be fun to study in and housing was not the rip off prices of London , he went to Liverpool Uni not John Moores by the way. Has the individual you mention got a part time Job, or are they fully relying on bank of mum & dad.

[dickturpin]

On the piss and partying with designer clothing is certainly not true of the person I have sympathy for.

[lew600fazer]

Does he or she have a part time job??simple question. and as I said my lad was happy to wear Tescos own clothing brands and save a few quid. He also only had hand me done mobile phones not state of the art. Sorry but there is no way any student should be racking up £50k in debt going through Uni.
When my lad was thinking about getting married  he mentioned how Liz was talking about how they would have to pull together to help clear her student debts £28k , my advice was to tell her they are her debts not theirs , thankfully he took that on board and went their separate ways.
Call me what you want but todays youth want everything on a plate , I see it with my Grand daughter and nieces & nephews children. get things far to easy in life and want mum & dad to pay for it.

[red98]

Got to agree with you lew......money management , budget control , is a life skill that should be learnt at school/college/uni but imo that just dosn't happen....yes they get help at uni with loans to pay the fees etc but when they leave the majority havn't a clue.....I knoww a few that are in full time employment now and have no intention of paying back the loan......iam getting on a bit now and that money could well be my pension money   


sounds like you have a son to be proud off lew........well done buddy I hope he does well for himself   

[fazersharp]

Sorry but there is no way any student should be racking up £50k in debt going through Uni.

I think that figure is relating to 7 years to train as a doctor in London.

And yes
 Money management , budget control, mortgages, tax should be taught in schools but I dont think the rich banking elite would let any government do that as that is the last thing they want -- a fiscal literate population.

[esetest]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

[slappy]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.

[Dudeofrude]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.

But surely this is the problem?  We all know none of them are fit for the job yet we have no choice but to pick one? Why haven't we all stood up and said fuck off?  A democracy  is no good if all you get to decide is which pile of shit your gonna land in.

[slappy]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.

But surely this is the problem?  We all know none of them are fit for the job yet we have no choice but to pick one? Why haven't we all stood up and said fuck off?  A democracy  is no good if all you get to decide is which pile of shit your gonna land in.

This is something that I have always thought about---  What would happen if nobody voted ?  And I mean nobody, not one candidate in any constituency recieves one vote, the whole foccing country says sod the lot of them.

[Dave48]

I am reminded of some song lyrics from the sixties:- The Who singing "Wont Get Fooled Again" which includes the words "Meet the new boss-same as the old boss". Also Bob Dylans words "Dont Trust Leaders"...etc etc.
I am getting old & incredibly disillusioned and there doesnt seem to be anything about to change for the better. I do like the idea of no one voting.
Saw a big yellow sign in someones garden this morning asking me to vote liberal"-is there a candidate?-if so i havent seen or heard anything from a member of their party. The traditional main parties Con Lab & Lib dont have any relevance. I will use my vote as a protest against May & her ilk but this doesnt seem a positive thing to do.


I would say I will be glad when its all over bar the shouting but its never over is it and neither is the shouting- a bunch of overpaid,underworked wastrels to a man/woman with no idea of the daily reality for many of the electorate.
The UKIP guy on radio 4 this morning was trying to make political capital out of the Manchester outrage, but i admit he had a point re the cutbacks in policing,prison officers leaving, and shortcomings in our border controls.
Thinking about history-there have been times in the past when the populace have said "Enoughs enough"-I would like to see the whole lot of them down the local jobcentre & some competent people running the country (dream on!)