spongy clutch

[Grant1Shepherd]

Hi guys


Been having a little problem with my clutch recently for about a month and a half/2 months.


Every so often the clutch becomes really spongy for a few moments but then will go back to normal, it's very temperamental and I was wondering if anyone could give me any ideas of what could be causing it?


I don't mind having to buy a new clutch as springs and plates ain't that overpriced, and I already have a new clutch cable waiting


Hope you guys can help as always 


Thanks

[tommyardin]

Hi guys


Been having a little problem with my clutch recently for about a month and a half/2 months.


Every so often the clutch becomes really spongy for a few moments but then will go back to normal, it's very temperamental and I was wondering if anyone could give me any ideas of what could be causing it?


I don't mind having to buy a new clutch as springs and plates ain't that overpriced, and I already have a new clutch cable waiting


Hope you guys can help as always 


Thanks

Just a thought, you say you have a new clutch cable to fit, so I am assuming that you feel something is not quite right with the cable.
Worth a try, why not fit the cable and see if it makes any difference before shelling out on springs and plates and also a lot of work changing them, as it may not be necessary.
If the cable is dragging hanging up it would/could make the clutch feel spongy, by not biting quickly, because it is dragging, inner operating wire on the outer cable, could almost be acting like a bit of a shock absorber. Just a thought.

[tommyardin]

Oh! And one other thing thinking about it, under the front sprocket cover just in front of the sprocket itself is a clutch push rod that is actuated by the clutch cable via an internal leaver system this lever system can get completely gunged up with dirt and dust and other road grime mixed up with a load of thick greasy dirty chain lube, just another thing to check as all that crap could also act as a damper on the clutch action.
If it is not that then you will at least have a nice clean sprocket clutch push rod area on the bike so it is not wasted time.

[fazersharp]

See in my picture below your cables nipple gets hooked onto the tab which pulls up which turns the round thing with what looks like a tiny ball baring which then rises up/out to push on the clutch rod. There is a spring where it says spring whos job is to pull the arm back down and your leaver back out. The picture is what a clean cover looks like but the whole area can get jam packed with gunge-dead birds -grit so much so that it affects the clutch.
When you take the cover off you will destroy a thin gasket but there is no need to fit a new one, but even the very thin gasket removal may mean that you will need to adjust the clutch after.
When I did mine I took off the cable and hung it up and sprayed loads of parafin (think I used parafin )down and cleaned it followed by air to dry it followed by ACF 50 lube 

[tommyardin]

Hey Sharpie, Same as that matey peeps. Just been in the shed and taken the cover off cleaned it all up in there ready for the new sprocket to go on in the morning.
That all depends on the friendly man in the big white van arriving with my new sprocket and the Loctite 620 of course tomorrow.


The Renthal sprocket I ordered is advertised as a standard sprocket Ie: 15 tooth.
The one i have just removed from the bike is 16 tooth, I know my Fazer had a chain and sprocket set fitted about 1K miles before I bought the bike (The bike was well maintained) so chain and sprockets have now done about 9 or 10K so I thought a new front sprocket was a good idea, although there is no hooking to the front sprocket as yet but I am aware the beasties are case hardened and one the case hardening is compromised the little buggers wear out quickly shagging the rest of the drive train with it.
Any ideas Sharpie will the one tooth down on the front make that much difference? I know for track days 14 tooth is often recommended for better power out of the bends, just I dont want to lose to much top end if it only make about 5 or 6 mph difference off the top I can live with that as the better aceleration will more than make up for it.
Wot-cha-fink?




Woo woo! All cleaned up and ready to party   

[tommyardin]

Oops! forgot to add picture, hope i don't forget to add the sprocket tomoz

[unfazed]

Hi guys

Been having a little problem with my clutch recently for about a month and a half/2 months.

Every so often the clutch becomes really spongy for a few moments but then will go back to normal, it's very temperamental and I was wondering if anyone could give me any ideas of what could be causing it?

I don't mind having to buy a new clutch as springs and plates ain't that overpriced, and I already have a new clutch cable waiting

Hope you guys can help as always 

Thanks

Check for a frayed cable at the both ends.
Unhook both ends of the cable and see if it pulls and pushes easily without stiicking
Oil the cable as suggested in one of the previous posts.
Check to ensure the spring in the clutch cover is ok by operating the lever in the sprocket cover apply a little oil to the spring.
If the lever is stiff or does not move freely than read this post in the downloads on how to grease the bearings of the actuator  http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=60
Ensure the 5 bolts on the cover are tightened correctly (10Nm)

[fazersharp]

There has been some big discussions on here about tooth numbers and the effect on RPM at different speeds and also something about the same link hitting the same cog more often with certain front and rear tooth amounts.
Have a search on here for it.
When I do mine I have decides to go with standard extra acceleration would be good but there are times when I look for 7th gear.

I would be good to take some side by side pictures of your old and new sprocket for wear comparison.   

[tommyardin]

There has been some big discussions on here about tooth numbers and the effect on RPM at different speeds and also something about the same link hitting the same cog more often with certain front and rear tooth amounts.
Have a search on here for it.
When I do mine I have decides to go with standard extra acceleration would be good but there are times when I look for 7th gear.

I would be good to take some side by side pictures of your old and new sprocket for wear comparison.

Hi Sharpie,
Just cleaned the old sprocket and taken a couple of pictures one from each side and you can just make out a very, very slight hooking just starting so it will be good to replace it. I will try the new 15 tooth sprocket and if I don't like it I will get a 16 and replace it.

[tommyardin]

On the second picture, the one with the number 16 on it you can see the shape of the chain links at the base of the sprocket teeth, its just polished there is no ridge, it looks much worse than it is.  Maybe the chain was running just a tad out of true cos the polishing effect of the chain is not so pronounced on the flip side

[tommyardin]

there are times when I look for 7th gear.

I'm always tugging up for 7th, makes me mad, I'm going the GlPro way and fitting a cog counter. That will be my next project.
Still not set the loaded rider sag on my baby yet since the suspension upgrade.
The Rear static sag (Weight of the bike on the suspension) is 16 mm from fully extended.
The Front static sag is 25 mm from full extended.

I'm looking Rear loaded Rider sag of 35-40 mm fully togged up ready to ride, feet on the pegs (Full weight on the suspension)

And 40 to 45 mm on the Front Forks.
But its one of those jobs you need a few spare hands, and, people you can trust to measure accurately while you sat on the bike with someone else balancing/holding the bike upright without applying and down pressure or lifting at all.
I have the right guys to help but this weather is so shit I don't fancy the 25 mile ride total to get it sorted. just have to wait till it warms up a bit, as I don't do rain or cold, and I came off too many times as a younger guy cos of snow and ice.

Anyway I have just made a curry for tomorrow evening supper, I like to make it the day before cos it marinades, and curry always tastes better the next day.
Peter a mate of mine loves spices and makes a chilli paste/sauce that he calls 'Diabolo' it has so much heat in it, but the flavour is delicious just half a level teaspoon is enough in a curry for 4 people,it  is as hot as I can bear it and my family are about the same when it come to Diabolo tolerance so all is good.

He grows all the mini red chillies and limes and coriander and all the other stuff that goes into it, he says that he wants to know that everything is perfect before it get the title   'A Peter Woson Production' 

Beginning to feel like Mary Berry here lol!
Ingredients thus far
1 kilo of chicken breasts, 1 large onion finely chopped, 3 gloves of garlic crushed, 1 large potato diced, 1 large parsnip diced, 1 large carrot diced, 2 red capsicum peppers, 1 green capsicum pepper, half a level teaspoon of Peters Diabolo paste, (and here come the cheat) 1 Jar of Sharwoods Extra Creamy Tika Sauce.
And tomorrow for the final cook a few florets of cauliflower and a hand full of cashew nuts. Mmmmmm 
What this has got to do with a spongy clutch I do not know.

[fazersharp]

So how many miles has the sprocket had.
Be interesting to see a pic of the new one next to the old

[tommyardin]

So how many miles has the sprocket had.
Be interesting to see a pic of the new one next to the old

New 15 tooth Front Sprocket and Locite 620 arrived this morning.
A few pictures follow.


The old sprocket looks very good considering it has done between 10 and 11K.
Plus a picture comparing old sprocket tab washer to the upgraded new.

[fazersharp]

Im no engineer but at 10k and physically looking at the old next to new I would say that it did not need changing.

I last looked at mine 2000k ago and it looked ok to me and that was at 18k.

 

[tommyardin]

Im no engineer but at 10k and physically looking at the old next to new I would say that it did not need changing.

I last looked at mine 2000k ago and it looked ok to me and that was at 18k.

Your probably right Sharpie, I guess it all depends on how you maintain your chain, I'm a bit anal when it comes to looking after the chain and lubing it.
I use Motul spray chain lube, it sticks well and does not fly off excessively making a mess of the back wheel.
It's due a clean and lube now so it will get done when the sprocket goes on, as stated earlier I was going to put on the new Renthal 15T, But thinking about your comments with regard to the old one think I will put the 16T back on as it does probably does have 3 or 4K left in it.  Cheers Sharpie

[fazersharp]

Im no engineer but at 10k and physically looking at the old next to new I would say that it did not need changing.

I last looked at mine 2000k ago and it looked ok to me and that was at 18k.

Your probably right Sharpie, I guess it all depends on how you maintain your chain, I'm a bit anal when it comes to looking after the chain and lubing it.
I use Motul spray chain lube, it sticks well and does not fly off excessively making a mess of the back wheel.
It's due a clean and lube now so it will get done when the sprocket goes on, as stated earlier I was going to put on the new Renthal 15T, But thinking about your comments with regard to the old one think I will put the 16T back on as it does probably does have 3 or 4K left in it.  Cheers Sharpie

Dont go by what I say maybe start a new post with some pictures of the old and new and get some proper experts to look. Also I always thought that you change the whole lot front back and chain.(unless its for speed experiments ) And the front sprocket being the most warn out of the 3.

[tommyardin]

We had this discussion on here just a week or two ago.


The front sprocket rotates approx 3 times in relation to the back sprocket once, the load/strain is shared out over more teeth on the rear as opposed to the small front, hence less wear on the rear.


IE: More rotation more wear (A small tyre rotating at a set road speed will wear out much quicker than a tyre 3 times the size at that same set road speed, that's my understanding on sprocket wear.


Its the front sprocket that pulls the chain and wears the chain out, which in turn shags the rear sprocket. The most worn (Front Sprocket) part wears the following parts,


I had this conversation with someone on here and we agreed that the front sprocket wears 3 times faster than the rear, the front is taking the first stain of the toque from the engine the rear just does as it told and follows the front. The worn front sprocket wears the chain which wears out the rear sprocket, change the front sprocket more often and your chain will last longer as will the rear sprocket, you can get front sprocket on evilBay for 6 or 7 quid, full chain set just a shed load more.


I will try and find the post that it was discussed in, someone in that post put it more succinctly than I.     

[tommyardin]

Sharpie

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,17296.msg249878.html#msg249878   


Read from post 426 on wards for the discussion about sprocket wear, there is also a video clip in there from Dell Boys Garage which is helpful.


tommy

[tommyardin]

See in my picture below your cables nipple gets hooked onto the tab which pulls up which turns the round thing with what looks like a tiny ball baring which then rises up/out to push on the clutch rod. There is a spring where it says spring whos job is to pull the arm back down and your leaver back out. The picture is what a clean cover looks like but the whole area can get jam packed with gunge-dead birds -grit so much so that it affects the clutch.
When you take the cover off you will destroy a thin gasket but there is no need to fit a new one, but even the very thin gasket removal may mean that you will need to adjust the clutch after.
When I did mine I took off the cable and hung it up and sprayed loads of parafin (think I used parafin )down and cleaned it followed by air to dry it followed by ACF 50 lube 

Hey Sharpie,
The inside of you sprocket cover has a steel plate attached that mine does not have, the mounting posts are there but they are not tapped with a thread, so I'm guessing that Yamaha discontinued fitting the plates.

[tommyardin]

Also, I keep hearing people saying that the clutch cable needs adjusting properly at both ends to get the clutch working right.    Mine had no adjustment option at the bottom end, the only adjuster on my clutch cable is the handle bar thumb screw do-iccy on the handle bar clutch lever itself.
Or are those comment just pertinent to the 1K Fazers?

 

[fazersharp]

Yes that plate is supposed to be a sound proofing/damping thing that they did away with on later models.

Yes there is indeed a second clutch ajuster on the outside of the sprok cover its part of the gubbins that the spring attaches to.
There is some very useful info on here somewhere  try this and the pdf http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,17488.msg201488.html#msg201488
There is a lock nut you need a long socket for and then a screwdriver, never done myself - never needed to 

[tommyardin]

Yes that plate is supposed to be a sound proofing/damping thing that they did away with on later models.

Yes there is indeed a second clutch ajuster on the outside of the sprok cover its part of the gubbins that the spring attaches to.
There is some very useful info on here somewhere  try this and the pdf http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,17488.msg201488.html#msg201488
There is a lock nut you need a long socket for and then a screwdriver, never done myself - never needed to

Oh Dear!
Just had a look at that PDF link that you displayed, don't like the look of all those ball bearings, so hope I never have to get into that scenario.
I have a pump/pressure cable oiler so I lube my cable at least twice each year.
The cable runs remarkably freely through the out cable sohopfully with all teh lubing my cable will last and I may never have to get into adjusting the lower fitting.
Thank for the info Sharpie    I did not know about that.
That one of the good things about FOC-U there is a mine of information and knowledge out there, and it great for the crack to. 


Just downloaded that PDF and saved it to my Fazer folder on my computer, just incase.

[unfazed]

When adjusting the clutch cable especially after fitting a new clutch cable, start at the sprocket cover adjuster

This is easy enough to do, but before you do ensure the pivot hole in the clutch lever is not elongated from use, because if it is your wasting your time until you replace it.

Screw in the cable adjuster full at the lever end.

Remove the rubber bung on the sprocket cover
Loosen the lock nut with a deep spanner ( it will loosen with a crack and frighten the crap out of you)
Turn the lock nut anti clockwise a full turn
Hold you fingers lightly on the clutch lever
Turn the centre screw clockwise with a good fitting flat screwdriver
You will feel the lever moving out
Keep turning the screw until the lever is about 5 to 6mm from the lever housing.
Tighten the locknut.
Replace the rubber bung

Make the final fine adjustments with the cable adjuster at the lever

[tommyardin]

Cheers mer dear,
Have copied and pasted into my 'Fazer Folder' for future reference.