Camless engine technology

[dazza]

Take a look at this. Pretty impressive results I would say.
I for one can't wait for this to be applied to motorcycles. Less weight, smaller, lower centre of gravity engines, 47% more power, 45% more torque and 15% more fuel efficiency. Got to be the future.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510&ebc=ANyPxKqSKhNIUxBfXw_TtePs9XI7jMhfdUysyUucy0D2sCBZ5hOTtbbSUSYWvWeydWYG_LGAJpaFiY4CDr1gqdBp0Tfbg29ijQ

[Skippernick]

   be a while yet but wow.

[YamFazFan]

Really clever stuff that. Ta for posting.

Not sure I understood it all , but looks like the way forward.

[Skippernick]

Having just had a think whilst doing the washing up, isn't this essentially the same as Honda's pneumatic valve and Ducati's desmo valve?
If it is why hasn't it filtered down to all of their engines and I'm guessing reliability, its fine in a highly strung race engine thats that gets stripped down every third day but on an engine that you want to go for 200,000 miles it won't work?
He mentioned impressive figures but nothing about reliability.


Or have i not understood it at all?

[Hedgetrimmer]

I thought the Desmo system just used the cams to both open and close the valves? The Honda pneumatic system, I don't know.

[red98]

Thats right  mr trimmer...the cam has two lobes for each valve, one for opening the other for closing so no valve springs...down side is more frequent valve gap checks and I would of thought this system would be more expensive, more parts and tighter manufacturing tollerences....wasn't aware of the honda system , will have to do my homework on that one...parhaps a bit of washing up will help   




great video DAZZA...great system , down side for me is more electrics, i just cant keep up with all this modern witchcraft   

[Bretty]

It's all interesting stuff (and a fairly old video).
but I'm not clear on the figures he is quoting for torque and efficiency. I'm guessing he means, in comparison to the same engine running normal cams.


because, think about it. He quotes a really great efficiency figure... but what sort of mpg can you expect to get out of a koenigsegg? I'll bet not as much as my fazer.

[Bretty]

Engine cams are actually quite efficient. I know the springs are pretty hefty, but whenever you push one valve open against a spring, there is usually another valve closing with it's spring 'helping'. All the engine is really pushing against is friction, Which isn't alot when you consider they all run in a slippy bath of oil.

In the Koenigsegg the valves are all independantly pushing against springs, and using pnuematics. That's got to draw some power!!! There must also be a compressor somewhere?! So the engine combustion may be more efficient, but the system around it can't be? Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps it can do 50-60mpg like my car with normal cams?!

The biggest advantage is probably the variable timing options, although I don't think that is new technology either?!

All mind blowingly cool stuff, anyway. Although I'm not sure the technology will ever translate to modern cars.

[joebloggs]

The pneumatic valves have been around for a few decades so nothing new there, advances in engine management is probably where the gains are made.

Personally I'd sooner see Honda's XP2 two stroke technology developed for the road, 150bhp economical two strokes would be as mad as a box of frogs

[Bretty]

What we need is a few nuclear power stations (cheap electricity) and a comprehensive high voltage charging network and we'll all be zipping around on/in fully electric vehicles.


There are some super quick electric vehicles out there. The issue is the high cost of electricity, our lack of clean ways to make it and a lack of infrastructure to support quick charging.


I think that's the future and it'll happen quicker than you think.

[joebloggs]

What we need is a few nuclear power stations (cheap electricity) and a comprehensive high voltage charging network and we'll all be zipping around on/in fully electric vehicles.


There are some super quick electric vehicles out there. The issue is the high cost of electricity, our lack of clean ways to make it and a lack of infrastructure to support quick charging.


I think that's the future and it'll happen quicker than you think.

Is it not battery technology holding back ev's?

[Bretty]

Possibly, or hydrogen fuel cells or something?!

Our government has commited us to reducing our Nitrogen Dioxide levels in the air. Apparently we're super bad, illegal levels around central London and Heathrow. (This is independant of the EU)

London transport are pushing to make all london taxis and buses electric, which will create a london vehicle charging network, next thing they'll introduce a london zone for electric vehicles only. This will drive the market (remember when they first introduced the congestion charging zone and the whole world went out and bought a prius, as they were free to enter at the time.)

Part of Heathrow airports bid for the extra runway was a commitment to make ALL vehicles servicing the airport electric vehicles. I seem to remember that being over a thousand vehicles!!!

They all have a lot of commitments to achieve by 2020 and I've heard a lot of people say 'this IS happening'.

I'm not sure how practical any of this is. I still always remember Boris Johnson harping on about how we all must go electric and this is the future. Jeremy Clarkson just said, "where does the electricity come from Boris?". To which Boris replied "erm... from the plug".

The logic is you burn gas in a power station, then transmit the electricity at great cost and inefficiency to the plug socket. When at the moment we just put the gas straight into our tanks! It's weird logic.

I thought the concept of the electric bikes at the TT was interesting. Although the bikes were so quiet there were often birds just sat in the road in front of the riders.

[BBROWN1664]

So an air supply is needed to drive the valves and the valves are opened and closed using air instead of a cam. Compression can be increased as they use non-direct injection to prevent dieseling but emissions are down, power is up when compared to the original setup for that engine. All seems too good to be true and it is. At least at the moment. If it was as easy as they seem to suggest, then all cars would have this technology now.
There is a requirement to get a lot of air available as soon as you turn on the ignition or you will have bent valves the second you turn the key to start the engine. They mention the ability toi save weight and space by making the cylinder head smaller, but what about cooling?
Assuming you have a have an air reservoir available then the instant air is not a problem but you will need a compressor too then all the pipework for that. I'm not sure the weight saving will be that great.

I didn't see the thing running in that video either. Is it real?

[dazza]

Reckon half you Foccers should get a job with Koenigsegg and tell them where their going wrong.
I'm pretty sure they'd appreciate your  input   
Although I'm still trying to work out how you can bend a valve when one end is controlled by compressed air,must be made of cheese

[Bretty]

[BBROWN1664]

Although I'm still trying to work out how you can bend a valve when one end is controlled by compressed air,must be made of cheese

Valves tend not to go up and down completely vertically in an engine, they sit at a slight angle so if the valve is open and the piston comes into contact with it, it will bend rather than push it back in.

[Dead Eye]

I'm not convinced you'd need a huge reservoir of air - just a decent compressor which could likely be driven by the engine itself. I expect you could consider it sort of like a supercharger which although it leeches power produced by the engine, it still produces an overall benefit.

Since the valves are held by compressed air, I wonder if there was a compressor failure or something that the pressure on the valve would be reduced and would be more likely to be push back by the piston instead of being destroyed.... I doubt it considering the speeds and forces, but just an interesting thought

One last thing - this tech probably hasn't "trickled down" yet since Koenigsegg probably have it patented and are charging a ridiculous licensing fee to recover the development costs :P If it the tech stands up to the figures it could eventually become more common but that won't be for a while yet