Date: 13-11-19  Time: 20:36 PM

Author Topic: stuttering fzs 600  (Read 198260 times)

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #75 on: 15 April 2012, 07:32:43 PM »
hi ade....good video,shame i have no sound on my computer  :\  ill see if i can watch it at work tommrow,yours is a slightly later model than mine but more or less the same, i`ll let you know what happens tommrow  ;)
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #76 on: 15 April 2012, 07:51:32 PM »
another thing i spotted today,i have a small hole in the exhaust down tubes where two go into one,ive welded this up a couple of times before so looks like ill be needing a replacement,anyone have a good secondhand replacement for sale  :)
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Dead Eye

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #77 on: 16 April 2012, 12:15:23 AM »
I actually do have a set of spare downpipes - they are stainless steel (certainly dont look it anymore) but have no holes and only marginal surface rust and by this I mean it should scour brush off. Ive been meaning to get them cleaned up and put them up for sale. I also have the stock can as well, again with no faults.

I renewed the system to a) make the bike look pretty (naawwww) and b) the money was burning a hole in my pocket...


Edit: Btw ade, did you replace the fuel pump in the end? (It's late and im too lazy to read through the 3 pages in the other thread ;))
« Last Edit: 16 April 2012, 12:16:24 AM by Dead Eye »

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #78 on: 16 April 2012, 06:36:59 AM »
morning dead eye......very interested in your down pipes,have sent you a pm  :)
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ade the blade

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #79 on: 16 April 2012, 03:31:01 PM »
I actually do have a set of spare downpipes - they are stainless steel (certainly dont look it anymore) but have no holes and only marginal surface rust and by this I mean it should scour brush off. Ive been meaning to get them cleaned up and put them up for sale. I also have the stock can as well, again with no faults.

I renewed the system to a) make the bike look pretty (naawwww) and b) the money was burning a hole in my pocket...


Edit: Btw ade, did you replace the fuel pump in the end? (It's late and im too lazy to read through the 3 pages in the other thread ;) )
no mate.......not prepared to throw money at the thing willy nilly. got shot !

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #80 on: 16 April 2012, 08:54:27 PM »
ok went to see my spanner man today,had a little chat and he suggests checking the pick-up coil he also gave me some yamaha tech data (very simular to haynes and handy to have ) in the haynes it says to check the pick-up coil you need to set your multi meter to ohms x 100 scale,i dont have that on my meter so checked it on the other settings..................2k...........0.204
                             20k.........0.21
                             200k.......00.2
 
if the coils good it should have a resistance between 189 to 231 ohms,anybody know how to convert the above figures  ?
he also suggested to remove the datatool alarm,it was fitted when the bike was new so 14 yrs old now,turned out to be a cheap one with shock sensor and voltage drop to trigger it,removed now so something else to cross of the list
 short test ride tells me the hole in the exhaust is getting bigger  :\
 
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #81 on: 17 April 2012, 07:02:50 PM »
having trouble cheeking the pick-up coil,haynes manual says set multi-meter to ohms x 100 scale and if the readings are between 189 and 231 the pick-up coil is ok...i have not got a x100 scale on my multi-meter,i put it on 200 and it went of the scale so could be alright,if i put the meter on the next highest setting , 2000 it reads 0.204....not to sure how to convert that but would think thats 204 , which would make it a good-un....anyone else made these checks ? :)
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Fazerider

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #82 on: 17 April 2012, 10:26:18 PM »
Your meter is indeed telling you the coil resistance is 204 Ω.
I wouldn't expect the pickup coil to develop a fault that only occurs at 8000 rpm.


red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #83 on: 18 April 2012, 06:30:28 AM »
thank you FAZERIDER,something else to cross off the list,not much left now,i think i will buy some cheap parts off ebay and swap one at a time to see what i can learn,parts iam thinking about are
                                                   ecu/icu...ign coils...carbs
have emailed a few breakers for prices should get a few replys today.....thanks again FAZERIDER
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Fazerider

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #84 on: 18 April 2012, 09:19:10 AM »
Did you ever try my suggestion of lubricating the carb slides? Graphite powder is widely available and, once rubbed onto the slides and the body of the carbs where each slide contacts it, should last long enough to find out whether loss of free movement is the cause of the problem.

Gnasher

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #85 on: 18 April 2012, 02:18:05 PM »
good to see ya still at it mate ;)  i found a video on me camcorder i made a couple of weeks back to post on here but never got round to it. take a peek and see what you think. her bike is no more so this doesn`t really apply anymore but maybe it could ring a bell with others ! good luck with your spanner man :)
motorcycle fuel pump problem=

 
Matey your diving too deep me thinks  ;)
 
The electrics on the Fazer are pretty much bullet proof if the fail they just stop working, I've never known a Fazer pick coil to cause this issue, if fact I've only known them to fail after crash impact.
 
I'm 99% certain your problem is fuel/air it is either a blocked or partially blocked jet/s worn jets and or metering needles, damaged float/s, partially jammed open starter plunger.  Strip and check everything again take your time check each jet with a magnifying glass there must be NO damage/scoring on ANY of them pay particular attention to the emulsion tubes and make sure all the jet are the correct jets i.e. size!  The check all the bleed jets/cannels within the carb body recheck the diaphragms the whole surface they often hole right on the edge where they are clamped by the cap, the whole only being expose on large throttle openings i.e. giving it a handful.  Check all the the needles are set to the same and correct height and have all the washers and ring.
 
I know you've done a lot of work here matey I'm not being funny but you've missed something, remember the needle jet!  ;) :)
 
The other thing to check is the rubber caps on the synchronizing tubes make sure they are not split I once had this on a bike that came in doing just what yours is doing!  If you have a Scott oiler check the elbow they don't last more than a few years.  Also check every gasket and seal make sure the carbs are seated fully and squarely in the intake rubbers misfires at large throttle openings are often down to weak mixture and air leaks.  Lastly check the exhaust headers are fully seated and sealed after that mate there is not a lot else you can do other than change all the ignition system and try another working set of carbs.
 
Thinking about it why not see if you can borrow a set of carbs that you know work straight swap if the problem goes it's your carbs and one of the thing stated above, if it's still there it's an ignition issue which is possible.
 
It's very unlikely to be a fuel supply problem if you've only got a flat spot/misfire the float bowls hold enough fuel to last a while even on full throttle openings.
Later

Gnasher

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #86 on: 18 April 2012, 02:25:02 PM »
good to see ya still at it mate ;)  i found a video on me camcorder i made a couple of weeks back to post on here but never got round to it. take a peek and see what you think. her bike is no more so this doesn`t really apply anymore but maybe it could ring a bell with others ! good luck with your spanner man :)
motorcycle fuel pump problem=

 
Matey this problem was very unlikely to be a fuel supply problem, the float bowls hold enough fuel to last a while even on full throttle openings.  This for my money was mixture problem and I would have started with partially jammed open starter plunger/s and then looked at worn jets and or metering needles, damaged float/s and lastly diaphragms.  It could be any or a mixture of any you only need one carb to be out and you get what you had.
 
Later

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #87 on: 18 April 2012, 07:23:25 PM »
hi gnasher...thank you for that...two of us have now stripped the carbs down and not spotted anything, but i take your point about the needle jet,i also agree with you about the electrics,ive owned more than a few jap bikes over many years and never had a problem with electrics which has been backed up the tests i have done on the fazer over the last few weeks....needle and jets are origanal and never been touched from new so sizes and settings are fine,( ive owned the bike for nearly 10 years and 30,000 miles )   STARTER PLUNGER is a new one on me is that anything to do with the choke plunger ?
 i do keep coming back to the carbs but have removed and checked them half a dozen times now and can see nothing wrong.....so iam going to cheat  :eek ...ive bought another set of carbs an ecu and a set of coils from a breakers in surrey,removed from a working bike with 28,000 miles...all for £50,iam collecting the parts on saturday morning,
 i will start with the carbs but will clean and inspect them before fitting,
FAZERIDER,yes i did try your suggestion of lubricating the carb sliders by using a soft pencil but no inprovement,the sliders did seam to be a bit sloppy and i can understand them sticking,not ruled that out yet,swopping the carbs might highlight this as the problem
 if changing the carbs solves the problem,i will still try to find what the problem is and correct it as i would much perfer having known parts on a bike i use every day for work,
 my posts are getting i bit long winded now so i thank you all for taking time to read them,and of course for all of your help........ :thumbup
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #88 on: 21 April 2012, 10:42:31 AM »
picked the parts up this morning.parts as expected but a bit grubby,look to be in good working order,will give the carbs a clean and inspection before fitting  :)
 brother getting married on monday so iam a bit busy this weekend but might find time to get out in the garage  ;)
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #89 on: 22 April 2012, 07:49:46 AM »
had to go to basingstoke yesterday but couln`nt face the trip in the car with the saturday traffic so took the bike and the stutter came along for the ride,keeping the revs above 5000 but below 8000 i had a half deacent ride with lots of gear changes (a33 reading/basingstoke ).........this has however made the hole in the exhaust bigger so last night i took it off and had a look.....looks like  one of those tes strainers....lots of holes and very thin,out with the mig welder on the lowest setting and i managed to fill all the holes,a bit of light grinding and it dos`nt look to bad.....deadeye has helped me out with some new pipes ( thanks DEADEYE and HAPPY BIRTHDAY )  a friend of mine is going to pick them up on thursday all being well,
 busy today and tommrow as brother getting married so no work on the bike,but i have managed to give the new carbs a quick clean on the outside ready for internal cleaning and inspection,the casings are pitted and not as bright as the origanals but look good otherwise.....fingers crossed  :) 
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #90 on: 23 April 2012, 08:40:51 AM »
found some bbt (bonus bike time) yesterday and was able to refit the welded up downpipes and also the new seconhand coils,ive missed a small hole in the exhaust but luckly its on the bottom and can weld it in place,just a pin hole,went for a test ride yesterday afternoon and i think the flat spot at 5000rpm has gone,bit diffacult to tell with all the traffic on the roads,still has the stutter at 8000 but not as bad,i thinking sticking carb sliders as already mentioned by fazerider  ;) ;)  ,had a quick look at the new carbs last night,all the screws on the float bowls and diaphram covers are way to tight  :eek  but i did manage to get one of each covers off,float bowls are clean and look good,diaphram is good no holes but is a bit wrinkled and parhaps streched,sliders and needles look good...i dont realy want to fit the carbs without looking at them all so will take them to work and bore out the screws i cant move and retap,this is the risk you take with second hand parts,all being well i will fit the new carbs and see what happens and then parhaps just swop the sliders over.....bit of a pain boring the screws but i still have all the internals if i mess up,take my time and i should be alright....bike is rideable now and am using it this morning to pick up a few bits and peices for my brother as hes getting married today,so lots of bike talk with the boys later  :D 
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #91 on: 25 April 2012, 08:30:54 PM »
used the bike for work today,the flat spot is still there but not as bad......managed to get 13 of the 16 screws out of the float bowls on the new carbs,ive drilled off the heads of the other three and removed all bowls,all looks good and clean,i have now got to drill the remainder of the screws out,iam going to grind them flush with a dremal type grinding wheel and then bore a shallow 2mm pilot hole,refit the bowls and then bore with a 3mm drill using the bowl as a guide, ive made up a wooden jig to hold the carbs level on the pillar drill....i will have to be careful as the drill is going to want to take the easiest route.ie the carb body,this is why iam going to start with a 2mm drill to get it in the middle ;)
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ade the blade

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #92 on: 25 April 2012, 09:44:21 PM »
used the bike for work today,the flat spot is still there but not as bad......managed to get 13 of the 16 screws out of the float bowls on the new carbs,ive drilled off the heads of the other three and removed all bowls,all looks good and clean,i have now got to drill the remainder of the screws out,iam going to grind them flush with a dremal type grinding wheel and then bore a shallow 2mm pilot hole,refit the bowls and then bore with a 3mm drill using the bowl as a guide, ive made up a wooden jig to hold the carbs level on the pillar drill....i will have to be careful as the drill is going to want to take the easiest route.ie the carb body,this is why iam going to start with a 2mm drill to get it in the middle ;)
hey, this is getting all bloody technical ain`t it :lol ............good luck. take your time and remember to breathe gently ;)

Fazerider

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #93 on: 26 April 2012, 12:54:53 AM »
Good luck with that.
Before you grind the remains flat it may be worth another attempt to unscrew them if you've a small set of mole grips or suitable pliers. Without the head the remains of the screw won't be under tension or have the friction of the head against the bowl, a bit of penetrating oil and gentle heat may shift them if there's enough left to grip.

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #94 on: 26 April 2012, 06:45:10 AM »
FAZERIDER...that was my plan,as you say without any pressure on the screws you can usually grip whats left and it comes out easy,done it loads of times...not this time though...the only thing iam worried about is boring off center but if i take my time and use a 2mm drill first i should be alright  ;)
 
ADE THE BLADE...not realy technical but it could get bloody later on today...parhaps some bright red liquid and some equally colourful language  :o :o ....the plywood jig i have made makes it a lot easier,ill see if i can get some pictures  :)
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red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #95 on: 26 April 2012, 08:39:29 PM »
managed to find time to grind the remains Of the bored screws flush today,not a lot of room there but managed it ok with a small dremel type grinding tool mounted in the pillar drill,will go in early tommrow and bore and tap to finish the job off.
 my freind also picked-up the stainless down pipes i bought off DEADEYE to replace my welded up origanals...happy with that purchase...thanks DEADEYE  :)
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Dead Eye

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #96 on: 26 April 2012, 11:12:18 PM »
Again, you are very welcome :)

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #97 on: 28 April 2012, 07:20:51 PM »
managed to bore the remainder of the screws yesterday,float bowls back on with some nice new bright zinc coated pan head screws. :D :D :D ...no bike time today as grouting the bathroom tiles but should be able to get out there tommorow  ;)
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ade the blade

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #98 on: 28 April 2012, 10:35:47 PM »
grouting tiles ? thats womens work........get back out there and crack on with ya bike, you mouse !! ;) :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

red98

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Re: stuttering fzs 600
« Reply #99 on: 29 April 2012, 08:39:29 AM »
thanks ade...just what i need....a kick up the backside...........my wifes fed up with flushing the loo with a bucket and bathing in the front room using my grandads old tin bath.......good for me though as nothing worth watching on the telly  ;) ;) ;) ;)
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