Date: 17-06-19  Time: 14:01 PM

Author Topic: EU!  (Read 38760 times)

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #75 on: 22 June 2016, 11:25:31 AM »

Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.

Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #76 on: 22 June 2016, 11:27:16 AM »
Here's proof that the EU Referendum is just an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946

fazersharp

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Re: EU!
« Reply #77 on: 22 June 2016, 11:47:31 AM »

Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.

Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.

Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.

Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.
No you are right I do not trust anyone, the only person I trust is me.
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« Last Edit: 22 June 2016, 08:30:12 PM by johnakay »
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Re: EU!
« Reply #79 on: 22 June 2016, 11:02:50 PM »
Here's proof that the EU Referendum is just an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946



Do you really believe that ? - "an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into" ! As a country we've been complaining about EU unfairness for years.

Remember the BSE crisis - the French banned our beef because of a few cases of BSE. The French have had BSE in their beef cattle for years and never bothered doing anything about it, but oh no, as soon as there's an excuse, they go all parochial. Where was the EU governing body then, ensuring our free trade wasn't unfairly restricted (not to mention the lamb export issues), for ages after we'd sorted ours out.

Presumably 100% of the Labour Party and their MP's are all in full agreement on their position on the referendum and the EU, and the Lib Dems.......

This isn't about Party Politics, whatever the party. It's about the people deciding whether to be part of the EU, or not.

Honestly, I want us to stay in, but I just can't trust the whole EU enough, right now, to vote remain.

Especially after the EU leader's comments that "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned".

According to him, we already have the best possible deal. If we vote to stay, how are we going to change things, or get a better deal - we've just been told it won't happen by the man in charge !
« Last Edit: 23 June 2016, 07:14:25 AM by Millietant »

unfazed

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Re: EU!
« Reply #80 on: 22 June 2016, 11:26:01 PM »
The referendum is only an advisory, government could always say "you voted to leave, but we are not"  :eek :eek

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #81 on: 23 June 2016, 01:28:46 AM »
Do you really believe that ? - "an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into" !

Yes. Cameron only offered the Referendum to deal with the massive split in his Party in order to win the last election. Unfortunately he then found he had to make good on his offer.

The EU isn't perfect by any means, but Boris is just waving a bunch of bananas at the monkeys in the cage, promising them lots more if they'll vote for them, except if they do and he wins, they'll still be in the cage but they won't get the bananas.

I don't trust the EU, but I trust Boris, Michael, Nigel and Rupert Murdoch even less.

PS If you're undecided, consider this:

Voting Out will be an irrevocable step which will commit us to a path on which there's no turning back.

Voting In, however, does not preclude us leaving if the wheels come off in the future and at least gives us an option to try to change things for the better before that happens.

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #82 on: 23 June 2016, 07:25:07 AM »

Voting In, however, does not preclude us leaving if the wheels come off in the future and at least gives us an option to try to change things for the better before that happens.



No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.


Which bit of "there will be no treaty negotiations of any kind" leads you to say that we CAN change it.


I don't trust our politicians either, not Boris, Michael or Nigel, but i rust Juncker and his unelected cronies far less.

esetest

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Re: EU!
« Reply #83 on: 23 June 2016, 09:30:17 AM »
I am voting to leave ,but  IMO   the remain camp will win by 5% due to the amount of undecided voters who will  more than likely , not want change .

fazersharp

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Re: EU!
« Reply #84 on: 23 June 2016, 09:31:13 AM »

Especially after the EU leader's comments that "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned".

According to him, we already have the best possible deal. If we vote to stay, how are we going to change things, or get a better deal - we've just been told it won't happen by the man in charge !
Yep that's right its a blatant lie when D.C keeps saying to stay in a reformed EU, there is no reforming it.

It will be an out vote then DC and Osborn will go, then there will be a leadership election in which Gove will be pm with Boris not wanting the job (yet) Nigel will be Lord Farage so he can be given a job on the cabinet
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joebloggs

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Re: EU!
« Reply #85 on: 23 June 2016, 12:06:28 PM »
I'm out...........

Complete fabrication, I didn't make it up!

slappy

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Re: EU!
« Reply #86 on: 23 June 2016, 01:04:52 PM »

BBROWN1664

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Re: EU!
« Reply #87 on: 23 June 2016, 01:07:31 PM »
I have just been up to cast my vote and wasn't surprised to see a steady stream of people going in. The problem with that stream of people though are that it was all coffin dodgers who will not see any difference whichever way the vote goes today. the ones that it will affect are the ones that cant actually vote due to being too young.
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slappy

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Re: EU!
« Reply #88 on: 23 June 2016, 01:10:14 PM »
During the day I would expect it will be coffin dodgers, rest of us can`t get to vote till after 7pm when like me they finish work.

BBROWN1664

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Re: EU!
« Reply #89 on: 23 June 2016, 01:55:30 PM »
:agree

The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
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taylor

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Re: EU!
« Reply #90 on: 23 June 2016, 06:47:32 PM »
I am voting out because I want a more powerfull vacuum cleaner and Europe says I cant.  WHYYY.    that sums them up.  it is pathetic.
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Re: EU!
« Reply #91 on: 23 June 2016, 07:20:20 PM »
The market has spoken. Pounds is going up very strongly today - we all know what that means: remain will win  :)
 
 Check it in real time here:
 
 https://www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd

It seems the common sense will prevail.
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VNA

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Re: EU!
« Reply #92 on: 23 June 2016, 07:36:43 PM »
Quote
No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.

I don't think that is what he has said, and in any case it is not up to him.

If it is leave, and believe me I hope it is not, then DC will invoke EU article 50 - that is the process that allows any memeber step to leave.  DC will then be thrown out of the room, and the remaining members discess our withdrawl.

We can apply to rejoin, but conditions of joining are accepting the Euro, we would have to accept the Schengen area (passport free movement), we wouldn't get a rebate and all the stuff we have vetoed we'd have to accept. 

It does look like, once we are out we are out.

And talking of out, we hear a lot of whinging that people like Jean Claude Juncker are unelected, well once we are out David Cameron is toast, he will sooner than later stand down, and the UK will shortly after be lead by an unelcted PM up until the next General Election.
« Last Edit: 23 June 2016, 07:37:22 PM by VNA »

Graham Reaper

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Re: EU!
« Reply #93 on: 23 June 2016, 07:42:01 PM »
It's the smart voter that votes out......... ;)

lew600fazer

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Re: EU!
« Reply #94 on: 23 June 2016, 10:31:58 PM »
:agree

The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.


The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples  :rollin
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unfazed

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Re: EU!
« Reply #95 on: 23 June 2016, 10:34:06 PM »
It's the smart voter that votes out......... ;)

side the tripe talk and puts the mark in the remain box :lol

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #96 on: 23 June 2016, 10:35:21 PM »
Quote
No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.

I don't think that is what he has said, and in any case it is not up to him.

If it is leave, and believe me I hope it is not, then DC will invoke EU article 50 - that is the process that allows any memeber step to leave.  DC will then be thrown out of the room, and the remaining members discess our withdrawl.

We can apply to rejoin, but conditions of joining are accepting the Euro, we would have to accept the Schengen area (passport free movement), we wouldn't get a rebate and all the stuff we have vetoed we'd have to accept. 

It does look like, once we are out we are out.

And talking of out, we hear a lot of whinging that people like Jean Claude Juncker are unelected, well once we are out David Cameron is toast, he will sooner than later stand down, and the UK will shortly after be lead by an unelcted PM up until the next General Election.


You may not THINK that is what he said, but if you read the quotes, that is exactly what he said. He started using it in relation to our Leave vote, but finished by saying categorically that there was no more change to be had, Cameron had gotten the maximum the EU were prepared to give. If subsequently we do get more, as a result of a Remain vote, the J-P Juncker had publicly and undeniably lied to the entire British nation with the sole purpose of bullying us to comply with his/Eu's wishes - that would really sum up the EU and doubly justify why we should have voted Leave.

All of our PM's have been "unelected" - Labour, Tory, Liberal, whoever it may have been. In a general election we Do Not vote for a PM and we never have - im not sure you actually understand our electoral system? You're definitely confusing me on this.
« Last Edit: 23 June 2016, 10:38:02 PM by Millietant »

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #97 on: 23 June 2016, 10:43:30 PM »
:agree

The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.


The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples  :rollin


Lew - have you forgotten that we weren't told we were voting to join the EU - we were voting to join the EEC.


If that's what this vote was about, I'd be saying Remain - but it's not, the EU is completely different to the EEC and it's all of those differences that the Leave voters are rebelling against. If we'd been voting on the EU (and all it entails) in the 70's, it would have been a massive NO.
« Last Edit: 23 June 2016, 11:43:15 PM by Millietant »

unfazed

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Re: EU!
« Reply #98 on: 24 June 2016, 01:36:32 AM »
One thing which seems to have been avoided is that the EU is what is holding down the interest rates. When you leave the interest rates will have to rise to maintain the strength of pound in the markets. Anyone with a large mortgage will end up paying much more. I remember back in the early paying 11% interest on my mortgage which rose to 18% at one stage in the late eighties, before the EU took control of  banking and rate setting which brought it back to a more reasonable 5 to 7%.

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Re: EU!
« Reply #99 on: 24 June 2016, 02:11:35 AM »
Gibraltar voted 95% to remain. Leave seems to win. Greetings from Spain; we are ready to close the fence, LOL