Date: 26-08-19  Time: 06:48 AM

Author Topic: EU!  (Read 39125 times)

slappy

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Re: EU!
« Reply #50 on: 18 June 2016, 07:33:51 PM »
Ok, what happens if it is a dead heat ? :)

mtread

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Re: EU!
« Reply #51 on: 18 June 2016, 09:00:42 PM »
I get the casting vote  :thumbup

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #52 on: 18 June 2016, 09:05:34 PM »
It could be 1 pence for all I care the point still remains that it is our money that we sent to them and then THEY chose where it gos when it comes back

And what do you think would happen to it if we left? Do you *really* believe that the bunch of right-wing neo-liberals who would take over would give it to the NHS etc as they claim? Remember these are people who support the idea of *privatising* the health service!

No, what would more likely happen is that they would use it to cut taxes for their mates, leaving the rest of us still (or even more) screwed :(

markie_wales

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Re: EU!
« Reply #53 on: 19 June 2016, 09:35:37 AM »
Ok, what happens if it is a dead heat ? :)

I'm Remain but hate Hipocracy - 1 vote to stay & we stay in. One vote to leave and "it's too important a decision when the vote is this close, instead of leaving we're going to...." and that annoys me even though it favours my opinion.

Cheers

Markie

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Re: EU!
« Reply #54 on: 19 June 2016, 10:38:46 AM »
I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year  and Camoron said no but after xmas he paid up.

You are right I forgot about that one and it looks like everyone else has too- including the leaders of the out campaign
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slappy

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Re: EU!
« Reply #55 on: 19 June 2016, 03:16:18 PM »
I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year  and Camoron said no but after xmas he paid up.

You are right I forgot about that one and it looks like everyone else has too- including the leaders of the out campaign

Maybe because it is an actual true fact, something that is in short supply in both the remain/leave campaign.

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #56 on: 19 June 2016, 11:42:37 PM »
I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year 

Yes, it's like HMRC demanding you pay more taxes because you earned more money last year. It's SO UNFAIR!!!

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #57 on: 20 June 2016, 10:01:23 AM »
I reckon this will be like the Scottish Independence vote - before the vote everyone was told by the pro independence lobby that this was a "once in a lifetime" chance (presumably because if the won they'd want to make sure no one could push a re-vote)

But since they lost, they have been repeatedly saying how they will use new circumstances to push through another vote to try to get their minority position changed.

Had the vote been for Independence, the I'd guess the other side would now be pushing for another referendum as well.

It's always the way, if you lose a vote, then go for another referendum. In today's world, nothing is certain.

If we vote to Remain, there will undoubtedly be another referendum if things change.

If we vote to Leave, there will undoubtedly be a future referendum about re-joining.

The one certain thing about politics is that nothing is certain.
« Last Edit: 20 June 2016, 10:09:01 AM by Millietant »

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #58 on: 20 June 2016, 10:07:03 AM »
I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year 

Yes, it's like HMRC demanding you pay more taxes because you earned more money last year. It's SO UNFAIR!!!


Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.

Surely the idea of everyone paying the same % is what makes taxes fair.

Just think about it, because you work your socks off, put in loads of extra time, take risks with your personal life (investing in your career), you should give 50% of your earnings back. Sorry mate, but that's just wrong.

If we all pay the same %, the more you earn, the more you pay - that is totally fair.
« Last Edit: 20 June 2016, 10:08:21 AM by Millietant »

taylor

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Re: EU!
« Reply #59 on: 20 June 2016, 10:57:28 AM »
well said that man.
sent from my carafan in tenby, ;)

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #60 on: 20 June 2016, 11:21:46 AM »
Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.

Surely the idea of everyone paying the same % is what makes taxes fair.

Imagine a pile of bricks needs to be moved. You have two people to do the work, one is 6' tall and built like a brick sh!thouse, the other is 5' tall and weighs 7 stone wringing wet.

The 7 stone person picks up a couple of bricks because that's all they can manage, staggers across to the new location and puts them down.

The 6' person picks up two bricks in one hand, strolls across and puts them down.

Surely the idea of everyone carrying the same load is what makes it fair...

Quote
If we all pay the same %, the more you earn, the more you pay - that is totally fair.

You forget that taxes like VAT are regressive, the less you earn, the more they affect you. Richer people do not spend the same proportion of their income as the poor do, so pay less.

But if you prefer a system of "Mine! Mine! Mine!" or "Screw you, I'm alright, Jack", that's up to your conscience.
« Last Edit: 20 June 2016, 11:26:30 AM by Grahamm »

Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #61 on: 20 June 2016, 04:23:21 PM »

Your analogy Grahamm,


Imagine a pile of bricks needs to be moved. You have two people to do the work, one is 6' tall and built like a brick sh!thouse, the other is 5' tall and weighs 7 stone wringing wet.

The 7 stone person picks up a couple of bricks because that's all they can manage, staggers across to the new location and puts them down.

The 6' person picks up two bricks in one hand, strolls across and puts them down.

Surely the idea of everyone carrying the same load is what makes it fair...


I think you're agreeing me - if one is stronger, they carry proportionally more bricks.....

But, using your analogy, if the 7 stone person is half as strong as the 6' person, then the 6' person should carry double what the 7 stone person carries..... Nice and fair and balanced.

But.... What you're saying otherwise, the way I'm reading it, is because the 6' person is twice as strong, he should carry three times as many bricks - you're changing the ratio (just like my comments about 22% and 50% tax rates).

Like I said, I'm not one for the "I'm all right Jack" approach that you seem to misunderstand my comments as,  I'm for everyone contributing the same proportionally. Equality for all in taxes.

But, I don't begrudge anyone who reaps the rewards of their efforts or the risks they take, why should we let jealousy rule our lives - unless the risks/efforts are from criminal activity, or cheating others - these people should have their assets seized, sold off and the proceeds given to their victims.
« Last Edit: 20 June 2016, 04:33:04 PM by Millietant »

Val

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Re: EU!
« Reply #62 on: 20 June 2016, 06:00:33 PM »
I am tired of all this there are no facts bs. Here are some facts for you, deal with it  :lol

! No longer available


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Millietant

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Re: EU!
« Reply #63 on: 20 June 2016, 06:27:30 PM »
 :)

Dead Eye

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Re: EU!
« Reply #64 on: 20 June 2016, 10:16:50 PM »
I've generally been keeping on the side lines of this (on the forums) as I'm not up for a long drawn out debate behind a keyboard, however I will be voting Remain. In general I don't think either of the pro-leave and pro-remain groups who are actively pushing their agenda have done a particularly good job; there's been a lot of hyperbole, theory and scaremongering which has left, I believe, a large proportion of people confused.

Ultimately however, in my opinion, this feels almost similar to the last general election. I see* a lot more pro-leave propaganda and articles floating around and being broadcast just as I saw a lot more pro-Labour information, but I believe the actual vote will go the other way. I expect the general public to vote to Remain, though I'll admit it will probably be close; in the region of a 5-10 point difference


* This is based solely on my own personal experience and may not truly reflect the information that others see on a day-to-day basis

fazersharp

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Re: EU!
« Reply #65 on: 20 June 2016, 10:24:12 PM »
Sometimes I think the polls have been faked in the past and also this time will predict an out vote just before voting with the sole purpose of energising the in camp to get out and vote   
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HarryHornby

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Re: EU!
« Reply #66 on: 20 June 2016, 10:39:12 PM »
meanwhile in Wales  :rollin




GENIUS POST!!!! Hahahahahaa brilliant. Flippin needed that hehe...the polls are aswaying......got question time on now....
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys beer, and that helps!

unfazed

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Re: EU!
« Reply #67 on: 20 June 2016, 11:24:27 PM »
Does it really matter to the ordinary Joe Public if UK are in or out of the EU. :rolleyes
Majority of those on welfare will not see and difference and probably won't bother voting which is the norm according to statistics.

Does not bother me what they, but will be a pain in the arse having to go through customs when going to Plymouth to get the ferry to Northern Spain :( fed up of riding down through France from Cherburg or Roscoff :eek

BIG MAC

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Re: EU!
« Reply #68 on: 21 June 2016, 12:31:29 AM »
Yes it matters because if the Jocks walk..there will be no rUK benefits system as the rUK will be on the bare bones of its arse and not able to service its debts.
The Frying Scotsman

Grahamm

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Re: EU!
« Reply #69 on: 21 June 2016, 05:37:51 PM »
I think you're agreeing me - if one is stronger, they carry proportionally more bricks.....

No, I'm pointing out that, under the flat rate tax system that you advocate, those who can carry a proportionally larger burden *do not*.

It's not simply a case of "if everyone pays the same percentage of their income as tax, that's fair" because it ignores what's called the "marginal propensity to consume", ie the proportion of your income that you actually spend.

If you earn £1000 a month (after tax) and spend £1000 a month, your MPtC is 100%. If (to pick a figure) you earn £10,000 a month (after tax), however, you are very unlikely to spend £10,000 a month, you might spend (to pick another figure) £4000, ie your MPtC is 40%. The second person is left with £6000 a month to save, the first person has *nothing* to save because they have to spend it all to live.

It's all very well saying "equality in taxes", but the effect of tax on the low earners is *much* greater than the effect on the higher earners. Simply saying "they pay the same proportion" misses this fundamental issue. This is the misunderstanding that gives us the claims of the so-called "trickle down" effect where, supposedly, the poorer benefit from the richers' spending, except that much of what the richer people earn is *not* spent, but is put away in financial institutions which only benefit those who can actually afford to invest in them.

Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!), it goes to people who *will* spend it and put it back into circulation which is my point.

fazersharp

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Re: EU!
« Reply #70 on: 21 June 2016, 05:50:04 PM »

Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.
Whenever an IN politician speaks they say they want to stay in a reformed EU, Cameron had his chance to make changes and got nothing even under the threat of a brexit the EU still gave him nothing so what chances are there of any EU reform if we vote to stay, it will be a green light for even more EU.
 
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VNA

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Re: EU!
« Reply #71 on: 21 June 2016, 08:20:37 PM »
 

But since they lost, they have been repeatedly saying how they will use new circumstances to push through another vote to try to get their minority position changed.

Putting aside for now that the Better Together campaign broke the terms of The Edinburgh Agreement and cheated in the closing stages of the Scottish Indy Ref;

Well we were repeatedly told by Better Together that an Indy Scotland would be thrown out of the EU and not be able to re-join, and that the way to ensure we remain as part of the EU, which it appears the majority of Scots wish to do so, was to reject Independence.

Vote NO to guarantee EU membership was the message. 

Now there is the possibility of a major change in circumstance and Scotland possibly being dragged out of the EU against it’s will and contrary to what we had been promised in 2014.  Hence there may be a drive for a second Indy Ref.

Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.

I agree, you should pay 50% if you earn more than 150,000 a year, it should be more like 60%.
Let us not forget that there is a ceiling on NI contributions, you only pay NI contributions on your income up to a certain point.  Further we have a great many flat rate taxes that impact on lower earners in a way that they do not on upper income earners.  Ie VAT, petrol tax, insurance tax etc etc.

In the Uk the more you earn the less you pay in tax as a percentage of your income.  It’s about time that was addressed.
 
Anyway VOTE REMAIN!
 
« Last Edit: 21 June 2016, 08:21:26 PM by VNA »

VNA

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Re: EU!
« Reply #72 on: 21 June 2016, 08:33:09 PM »
Of course I haven't mentioned council tax, stamp duty, in fact the cost of housing in the first place, all that impacts on the working  person in a way it simply does not on high earners and the rich.

What we have in the UK is in fact socialism in reverse, a sort of socialism for corporations and the rich.

But again none of these things are the fault of the EU.

People get the governments they deserve.  Vote Tory and you deserve to get focced, unless you are rich or a member of the establishment that is.

And we'll get focced even more by the Tory scum bag bastards if we leave the EU when they scrap all the Eu employment laws.

Vote leave if you like it up the .........

Frosties

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Re: EU!
« Reply #73 on: 21 June 2016, 08:43:51 PM »
A farmer named Sam was overseeing his herd in a remote hilly pasture in Hereford when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced toward him out of a cloud of dust.  The driver, a young man in a Brioni® suit, Gucci® shoes, RayBan® sunglasses and YSL® tie, leaned out the window and asked the farmer, "If I tell you exactly how many cows and calves you have in your herd, will you give me a calf?"

Sam looks at the man, who obviously is a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing animals and calmly answers, "Sure, why not?"

The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell® notebook computer, connects it to his Cingular RAZR V3® cell phone and surfs to a NASA page on the Internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo.

The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop® and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg, Germany ... within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot® that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses an MS-SQL® database through an ODBC connected Excel® spreadsheet with email on his Blackberry® and, after a few minutes, receives a response.

Finally, he prints out a full-colour, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet® printer, turns to the Farmer and says, "You have exactly 1,586 cows and calves."

"That's right. Well, I guess you can take one of my calves,"  says Sam.

He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on with amusement as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his BMW.

Then Sam says to the young man, "Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my calf?"

The young man thinks about it for a second and then says, "Okay, why not?"

"You're a Member of the European Parliament", says Sam.

"Wow! That's correct," says the yuppie, "but how did you guess that?"

"No guessing required." answered Sam. "You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew, to a question I never asked. You used millions of Euros worth of equipment trying to show me how much smarter than me you are; and you don't know a thing about how working people make a living - or about cows, for that matter.

This is a herd of sheep.  Now give me back my dog.”

AND THAT FRIENDS, so I am reliably told, IS WHY WE SHOULD LEAVE THE EU :lol :lol
« Last Edit: 21 June 2016, 08:48:34 PM by Frosties »
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

Val

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Re: EU!
« Reply #74 on: 21 June 2016, 09:36:31 PM »
good joke Frostie  :thumbup

I have one shorter and better:

Quote from: Boris
Boris Johnson will make TV apology if Brexit triggers recession...
« Last Edit: 21 June 2016, 09:37:05 PM by Val »
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