Date: 28-03-24  Time: 11:30 am

Author Topic: Today's "What Gets My Goat" - NO POLITICS!  (Read 641697 times)

mtread

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2750 on: 05 November 2018, 10:03:38 pm »
I completely agree. But it seems that some quarters use the poppy to celebrate nationalism.

YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2751 on: 05 November 2018, 10:13:37 pm »
Nemanja Matic has chosen not to wear a poppy because at the age of 12 he was bombed by NATO forces. He probably knows more about war than most.
Errr, isn't that pretty much what VNA was saying?. Or have I missed something?.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2752 on: 05 November 2018, 10:15:56 pm »
I completely agree. But it seems that some quarters use the poppy to celebrate nationalism.


They're only deluding themselves.

Frosties

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2753 on: 05 November 2018, 10:16:23 pm »
Actually I have some problems with WW1. Empire vs Empire, shell shocked soldiers shot at dawn, public schoolboys blowing whistles so that poor devils could run at machine guns. Lions led by donkeys. Not our greatest moments.


What has that got to do with remembering the sacrifices of those who died? It's not about remembering the generals, the politicians, who sent these men to the slaughter.


To be honest I agree with Mtread - you need to experience being led by a donkey to appreciate it. Tens of thousands would have been saved if promotion was within the ranks.


Personally I wear a poppy, not just for WW1 but for ALL of our military conflicts.


And agree with the Serbian footballer comments....you either want to remember or you don't. Agree with BBC comments also which is a complete joke implemented for appearance sake - false / forced wearers can go get fucked.
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2754 on: 05 November 2018, 10:20:03 pm »
Aparently a number of Irish football players in the English premier league have been booed.  Such behaviour is replusive.  It just the same stupid patriotic mob mentally that leads to war in the first place. 

Quote
I buy a poppy but don't wear it all the time. Actually I have some problems with WW1. Empire vs Empire, shell shocked soldiers shot at dawn, public schoolboys blowing whistles so that poor devils could run at machine guns. Lions led by donkeys. Not our greatest moments.
Indeed, I used to wear a Red Poppy.   Some of the stuff you mention there is why I now wear a white poppy.  Though no I don’t wear it all the time.  Just now and again in the lead up to remembrance, simply because the white poppy is very much mis-understood. 



 And as for those who refused to fight.  Well I also have a great respect for them.  Those who objected during the first world war were treated appallingly.  And there were many who didn’t want to go, but you could say it was easier to go than to say no.


Aye and spare me the ultimate sacrifice pish when it comes to ww1, most were simply and needlessly slaughtered, even told to walk towards the enemy machine guns.


Aye soldiers shot at dawn.  And for a variety of reasons.  Some picked at random and shot just as an example to the troops.  Gee then up a bit with a random execution.   What what.


 

mtread

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2755 on: 05 November 2018, 10:21:39 pm »
Quote
Errr, isn't that pretty much what VNA was saying?. Or have I missed something?.
Just adding what he actually said.....

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2756 on: 05 November 2018, 10:23:44 pm »
Quote
<blockquote>Nemanja Matic has chosen not to wear a poppy because at the age of 12 he was bombed by NATO forces. He probably knows more about war than most.
</blockquote>Errr, isn't that pretty much what VNA was saying?. Or have I missed something?.


Umm no.  But that is a very valid point, an import point indeed.  My point is he is Serbian.  The Red Poppy Appeal represents 'our' war dead.

 

Frosties

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2757 on: 05 November 2018, 10:35:33 pm »
Aparently a number of Irish football players in the English premier league have been booed.  Such behaviour is replusive.  It just the same stupid patriotic mob mentally that leads to war in the first place. 

Quote
I buy a poppy but don't wear it all the time. Actually I have some problems with WW1. Empire vs Empire, shell shocked soldiers shot at dawn, public schoolboys blowing whistles so that poor devils could run at machine guns. Lions led by donkeys. Not our greatest moments.
Indeed, I used to wear a Red Poppy.   Some of the stuff you mention there is why I now wear a white poppy.  Though no I don’t wear it all the time.  Just now and again in the lead up to remembrance, simply because the white poppy is very much mis-understood. 



 And as for those who refused to fight.  Well I also have a great respect for them.  Those who objected during the first world war were treated appallingly.  And there were many who didn’t want to go, but you could say it was easier to go than to say no.


Aye and spare me the ultimate sacrifice pish when it comes to ww1, most were simply and needlessly slaughtered, even told to walk towards the enemy machine guns.


Aye soldiers shot at dawn.  And for a variety of reasons.  Some picked at random and shot just as an example to the troops.  Gee then up a bit with a random execution.   What what.


Well said sir

Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2758 on: 05 November 2018, 10:39:20 pm »
led by donkeys.

That's mostly untrue. In the main they were experienced proffesional generals used to fighting small colonial wars. They had to adapt to a conflict on this scale fast.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/453259/The-lions-were-not-led-by-donkeys

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2759 on: 05 November 2018, 10:50:50 pm »
led by donkeys.

That's mostly untrue. In the main they were experienced proffesional generals used to fighting small colonial wars. They had to adapt to a conflict on this scale fast.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/453259/The-lions-were-not-led-by-donkeys


It still exists to this day - it's called Sandhurst ! No different to a Graduate Engineer who's thought process is "I can't do your job but my book says you're doing it wrong". Educated idiots the lot of them
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2760 on: 05 November 2018, 10:55:28 pm »
Quote
<blockquote>Nemanja Matic has chosen not to wear a poppy because at the age of 12 he was bombed by NATO forces. He probably knows more about war than most.
</blockquote>Errr, isn't that pretty much what VNA was saying?. Or have I missed something?.


Umm no.  But that is a very valid point, an import point indeed.  My point is he is Serbian.  The Red Poppy Appeal represents 'our' war dead.

 
Yeah I missed something then :o

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2761 on: 05 November 2018, 11:08:44 pm »

It still exists to this day - it's called Sandhurst ! No different to a Graduate Engineer who's thought process is "I can't do your job but my book says you're doing it wrong". Educated idiots the lot of them


You served under all of them?!

Frosties

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2762 on: 05 November 2018, 11:11:38 pm »
Perfect time to take the piss - NOT!
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2763 on: 05 November 2018, 11:14:06 pm »
Perfect time to generalise - NOT!

Frosties

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2764 on: 05 November 2018, 11:15:02 pm »
Experience is not generalisation
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2765 on: 05 November 2018, 11:15:37 pm »
So did you serve under all of them?

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2766 on: 06 November 2018, 07:32:40 am »
So did you serve under all of them?

I have! I  served under officers straight out of BRNC Dartmouth that have joined a ship with NO experience and have tried telling Leading hands Petty Officers & Chiefs that they are doing something wrong! I found that a quiet word in there ears have directed them nicely!

& to add to the debate I wear my red poppy all year, but mine is for the lads (& Lasses) I have left behind during my 28 years & time since I left, not just during conflicts but at any of them that have died in Service!

Gone but not Forgotten!!

Mine is for me to remember don't care what anyone else does!  if an individual doesn't want to wear one that's their belief not mine!
« Last Edit: 06 November 2018, 07:35:24 am by Robbie8666 »
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YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2767 on: 06 November 2018, 07:54:01 am »

I haven't served in the armed forces so I can't comment from personal experience like those of you who have.


Is that like tongue in cheek army banter about all of the officers?.


We stood next to a group of ex-soldiers during the couple of hours wait for the service to begin at The Cenotaph last year and they were ribbing and bantering each other about regiments etc...


All good natured stuff.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2768 on: 06 November 2018, 10:09:39 am »


Is that like tongue in cheek army banter about all of the officers?.


Other Ranks always take the piss out of officers. The joke was that to make an officer, you remove a person's brains. It seems some took it literally.
Of course some officers, especially junior officers, are incompetent. But take any group and that will be the case. And if you're just out of Sandhurst, of course you don't have experience. But some will then use the experience of their veteran NCOs until they gain the necessary experience to be the leaders of men. That, in my book, is how an officer can be good right from the start. We can't all be born a Caesar or an Alexander.

Robbie8666

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2769 on: 06 November 2018, 10:27:00 am »
But some will then use the experience of their veteran NCOs until they gain the necessary experience to be the leaders of men. That, in my book, is how an officer can be good right from the start. We can't all be born a Caesar or an Alexander.

totally agree if a baby officer has a good NCO for his first few postings then they will be moulded in the right way!

yes and banter in the armed forces is good,
it goes something like inter department rivally then inter ship then inter service then inter nation! but at he end of the day you stand next to the bloke you just been scrapping with and share a pint or 2 and ask how did that start lol!!
It ain't what you ride, it's who you ride with!!!

YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2770 on: 06 November 2018, 11:09:34 am »

It's interesting hearing about careers and lives that have probably been so different to mine.


I take it you served in the navy Robbie8666?.


What about you others?.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2771 on: 06 November 2018, 11:35:35 am »


yes and banter in the armed forces is good,
it goes something like inter department rivally then inter ship then inter service then inter nation! but at he end of the day you stand next to the bloke you just been scrapping with and share a pint or 2 and ask how did that start lol!!


Oh, this is so true!
Ex-RAF here, Air Communications, and latterly Avionics Tech. We were called fairies by other trades! We were equally disdainful of sooties and riggers etc, although on helicopters, riggers were in the majority and so had an unfair advantage in numbers.
Whilst in Germany, I served on a Puma helicopter squadron on a base that also had a Chinook and two Harrier squadrons. The Harriers were 3, and 4(F) squadrons. "F" standing for "Fighter". We used to call ourselves 230(F) squadron in a piss take of that Harrier squadron. Some called us "half-past-two" squadron.
And the RAF looked upon squaddies as little more than walking sand bags, and the less said about the Navy the better!  :lol  I'm sure Robbie and others will tell you what they thought of us!  :eek
And there were always, of course, "those bloody Yanks". Couldn't help but be impressed by their sheer military might if you visited one of their bases though.
And the banter between Scots, Irish, Welsh, English and those who originated from other countries within our own services - well, even then it would have seemed extreme to outsiders*, but banter is all it was, and we all worked, played and drank together on good enough terms - most of the time!  :lol
So has it always been...


Otoh, just for balance, when in Germany one of my best mates was on 3 sqn (he had a GSXR1100, I had my FZR1000), and another one I used to drink with a bit was a squaddie based there - I had never met anyone else with such a wide knowledge of military history at the time!


*You know, thinking about it, I think that's one reason I like the biking world so much (generally speaking of course!). There is much of that same kind of banter. Maybe it has something to do with that thing about the black sense of humour which comes from being in a community who have a level of danger involved in what they do? I've never been a mountaineer/climber (perhaps in the next life), but I'll bet it's the same within their 'ranks'.
« Last Edit: 06 November 2018, 12:24:34 pm by Hedgetrimmer »

YamFazFan

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2772 on: 06 November 2018, 01:42:16 pm »

public schoolboys blowing whistles so that poor devils could run at machine guns.


The officers certainly didn't escape the slaughter on the battlefield either.


17% of officers died compared with 12% of the regular soldiers.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2773 on: 06 November 2018, 02:05:08 pm »

public schoolboys blowing whistles so that poor devils could run at machine guns.


The officers certainly didn't escape the slaughter on the battlefield either.


17% of officers died compared with 12% of the regular soldiers.


And in some cases I think many of those public schoolboy officers formed a solid bond with their men, learned to understand where the ordinary working man came from, his hopes, his fears. Some went home and campaigned for their interests. Some wrote very eloquently in poetry and prose about the horrors they had seen, and the wrong of it all.

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Re: Today's "What Gets My Goat"
« Reply #2774 on: 06 November 2018, 02:16:33 pm »

....and over 200 Generals were either killed, captured or wounded. Apparently they visited the front line pretty much daily and were based significantly closer to it than nowadays when in battle.


Yes there was bad decisions made and some weren't up to the position, but the 'General Melchet' type character as portrayed in Blackadder Goes Forth is largely fiction.


Also a lot of people seem to think WW1 ended in a kind of stalemate. It didn't. It was a decisive victory for the allies .


Oh and yes I am looking these figures up. Thanks for the motivation mtread, I'm learning a lot of new stuff here.
« Last Edit: 06 November 2018, 04:58:50 pm by YamFazFan »