Author Topic: Complete loss of electrics whilst riding (Read 6674 times)

Pickle · « **on:** 31 May 2015, 11:52:51 pm »

Hi all, been a while since I posted on here and hoping some of you learned folks can offer a sad focer some pointers on my problem.

My 2003 600 foxeye has lost all electrics while I was riding it. No lights, no dash lights, no nothing!

I always ride with full lights on and recently after I had started the bike, let it warm up and then switched my lights on I noticed the oil light would come on for a second along with the orange light and the tacho dropped to zero but the engine didn't falter or cut out.

Anyway today I was luckily only half a mile from the house and going round a corner when everything just died.

Battery is only a year old and showing 12.7v but doesn't dip when I turn on the ignition switch. Disconnected the earth lead and no leak from positive to ground so I'm guessing its the ignition switch or maybe starter solenoid but I'm not splashing out till I'm sure.

Any advice on what to check to narrow down the issue?

Thanks in advance folks.

Fazerider · « **Reply #1 on:** 01 June 2015, 12:18:21 am »

I'd have a good look at the fuses and connectors around the battery area and those in the plastic enclosure under the tank as a first step. Anything that looks like it's got overheated means the volts are getting lost there.

Pickle · « **Reply #2 on:** 01 June 2015, 12:38:23 am »

Everything looks fine under the seat Fazerider and all fuses are good. Also removed my optimate and satnav leads just in case.

Jules-C · « **Reply #3 on:** 01 June 2015, 10:54:14 am »

Is there a fuse by the starter solenoid? Not got wiring diagram here to check.

With Meter check resistance of earth lead between battery and frame and similarly of positive lead between battery and fuses.

If nothing at all happening when turning ignition on could be ignition switch or its connector blocks

His Dudeness · « **Reply #4 on:** 02 June 2015, 02:01:24 am »

Totally dead suggest a break somewhere in the wiring. Could be a fuse or poor connection to the battery or a worn ignition barrel. It could also be a dodgy/melted connector or wire in the loom. I'd be leaning towards a melted connector somewhere because you're getting funny stuff happening on the dash so it sounds like things are touching off each other that shouldn't be. You're probably going to have to take all the connectors in the loom apart and check them for burning. What happens is they come apart slightly or a bit of water gets into them and they start to corrode so you get more resistance at the connection and so more heat and they start to melt and these intermittent problems happen. You could do it the smart way and check the wiring diagram for the most likely culprits but most of the connectors are in that box under the tank so I'd start in there. They can look fine from the outside but be melted on the inside so you'll have to separate them to know for sure that they're ok. Try the connection coming off the ignition first. I had similar problem where the bike totally died and that connector had melted

Pickle · « **Reply #5 on:** 02 June 2015, 11:18:26 am »

Quote from: Jules-C on 01 June 2015, 10:54:14 am

Is there a fuse by the starter solenoid? Not got wiring diagram here to check.

With Meter check resistance of earth lead between battery and frame and similarly of positive lead between battery and fuses.

If nothing at all happening when turning ignition on could be ignition switch or its connector blocks

I checked all the fuses and they are fine Jules. Think I'm going to have to start checking all my connections.

Pickle · « **Reply #6 on:** 02 June 2015, 11:22:30 am »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 02 June 2015, 02:01:24 am

Totally dead suggest a break somewhere in the wiring. Could be a fuse or poor connection to the battery or a worn ignition barrel. It could also be a dodgy/melted connector or wire in the loom. I'd be leaning towards a melted connector somewhere because you're getting funny stuff happening on the dash so it sounds like things are touching off each other that shouldn't be. You're probably going to have to take all the connectors in the loom apart and check them for burning. What happens is they come apart slightly or a bit of water gets into them and they start to corrode so you get more resistance at the connection and so more heat and they start to melt and these intermittent problems happen. You could do it the smart way and check the wiring diagram for the most likely culprits but most of the connectors are in that box under the tank so I'd start in there. They can look fine from the outside but be melted on the inside so you'll have to separate them to know for sure that they're ok. Try the connection coming off the ignition first. I had similar problem where the bike totally died and that connector had melted

Cheers Dudeness, looks like I'm going to have to start splitting all the connectors. Does anyone know if you can get meter prongs into the back end of the ignition barrel to see if the contacts are being made? Is there a multi-plug that just pulls off? I wouldn't have thought so as that's surely an easy way to steal the bike!

Freck · « **Reply #7 on:** 02 June 2015, 11:54:28 am »

The ignition switch routes to the plastic box under the tank where there are 2 connectors for it, I've just taken mine off as part of a front end strip.

Pickle · « **Reply #8 on:** 02 June 2015, 12:03:40 pm »

Quote from: Freck on 02 June 2015, 11:54:28 am

The ignition switch routes to the plastic box under the tank where there are 2 connectors for it, I've just taken mine off as part of a front end strip.

Thanks Frek, does that mean I can split it there and get a meter on it and check the ignition switch function?

Freck · « **Reply #9 on:** 02 June 2015, 01:19:21 pm »

Yes you can unplug both connectors in the box and slide the whole loom out

unfazed · « **Reply #10 on:** 02 June 2015, 11:43:23 pm »

If the main fuse in the starter relay is intact and all the battery connections are ok, check the red connector for the ignition switch in the box under the tank, it may be burned and corroded from arcing.

sinto · « **Reply #11 on:** 03 June 2015, 12:40:53 am »

Quote from: Freck on 02 June 2015, 01:19:21 pm

Yes you can unplug both connectors in the box and slide the whole loom out

Slide? That's a bit of an understatement, last time I took out loom to do headlight mod, I wish I was an octopus, the blocks I wanted were underneath every other block and was a nightmare

Freck · « **Reply #12 on:** 03 June 2015, 08:28:12 am »

I must have been lucky Colin, the plugs on mine were right on top and could literally just be slid out

In fact the whole front end strip has been easy peasy, even the rusty header nuts came off easily, which was a surprise as it looks like this bike's been very neglected for quite some time

Steve

tex1507 · « **Reply #13 on:** 03 June 2015, 05:45:56 pm »

I had the same problem with mine whilst riding on the motorway, i checked everything ended up at the local bike shop and they found that the fuse had blown but was not visable until a meter was put accross the terminals.

so for the cost of a 10amp fuse i would just change it and see if it makes a difference.

Pickle · « **Reply #14 on:** 04 June 2015, 10:58:41 am »

Checked all the plugs and fuses last night and they have all been greased by previous owner and all look good. I have a copy of the electrical diagram and will get to work checking continuity across all the connectors.
First port of call is the supply to the ignition switch then the feeds from there to the rest of the bike, this looks like the culprit but yet to prove it. Not looking forward to replacing it if this is the issue.

Pickle · « **Reply #15 on:** 04 June 2015, 03:54:27 pm »

Foc Me! I have just been on the Fowlers website and a new ignition barrel / switch is £286.42!!!!!

So as well as being a foccer of a job to change it's also daylight robbery.

Pickle · « **Reply #16 on:** 04 June 2015, 10:18:12 pm »

Well I found the problem. It's the harness leaving the underside of the ignition switch that is fractured in one or more places.
I checked the supply coming out of the ignition switch (red 5-pin plug under the tank) and was only getting 12v out of one of the five pins (the hazards / indicators feed). Just by chance I pulled on the harness while the ignition was switched on and Hey Presto, the dash lights and neutral indicator light came on. When I got her started and switched on the headlights the whole lot went down so clearly needs further investigation but not tonight.

Anyone managed to salvage a situation like this or am I likely to need a new switch? Also how easy is it to remove the front end fairing, clocks etc as I doubt i'll get a soldering iron in about it with all that gubbins in the way.

Lastly for anyone else that might encounter this problem in the future and for anyone wanting to avoid this happening to them, when the bars are turned hard left the main harness pushes on the ignition return harness and this flexing looks to be the cause of the problem particularly like me if you use the steering lock all the time. Try it yourself and you will see that a few cleverly positioned tie-wraps would have stopped this happening. Of course it could be that my bike has been dismantled in the past and not been put back together properly.

Thanks to all who offered advice

Bob

sinto · « **Reply #17 on:** 04 June 2015, 10:32:16 pm »

Glad you found it

Electrics are a pain.
Is it the ignition wires your talking about?
You say your going to try and get it out and solder it, can I suggest if it's goosed, you might be better 'adding' new wire to it, using heat shrink for each wire, then wrapping the whole lot in amalgamation tape this will also add a wee bit of slack that could help in the future.
I use a bit of cable tubing round the wires at the front, cheap as chips but saves this sort of hassle as like you, I use the steering lock alk the time.

Pickle · « **Reply #18 on:** 04 June 2015, 10:47:28 pm »

Quote from: sinto on 04 June 2015, 10:32:16 pm

Glad you found it
Electrics are a pain.
Is it the ignition wires your talking about?
You say your going to try and get it out and solder it, can I suggest if it's goosed, you might be better 'adding' new wire to it, using heat shrink for each wire, then wrapping the whole lot in amalgamation tape this will also add a wee bit of slack that could help in the future.
I use a bit of cable tubing round the wires at the front, cheap as chips but saves this sort of hassle as like you, I use the steering lock alk the time.

Yes Sinto, its the group of five feed wires coming out of the bottom of the ignition barrel. They have the usual black plastic sleeving over them but it's cracked due to flexing and I suspect one or two of the wires inside are broken. Good suggestion about adding wire to give more slack.
I just hope it is a broken wire or two that can be easily fixed because buying and fitting a new barrel would put me off the road for weeks just as the weather is getting nice.

sinto · « **Reply #19 on:** 04 June 2015, 10:49:59 pm »

I've not checked the actual barrel, but can't you buy a new wiring loom and just plug and play?

This is the sort of thing I use.

Pickle · « **Reply #20 on:** 04 June 2015, 11:12:50 pm »

I don't think you can buy just the harness, I think it comes as a complete unit as shown below. Would be good if I could though!
The crack in the sleeve is about an inch before the harness goes inside the bottom of the casing and I'm sure it's hard wired inside.

The one below is a Wemoto part at £47 but only has a 4 pin connector which suits the boxeye but the foxeye needs a 5 pin connector and it's funny money.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #21 on:** 04 June 2015, 11:56:38 pm »

So it was a dodgy connection off the ignition? You can fix it a few ways. You could replace the whole ignition but if the barrel itself is still working you don't have to replace it. You could cut the block connectors off on either side of the connection and solder in new block connectors. Or even easier you could do away with the block connector altogether and crimp each wire individually with normal crimp connectors. Then add some heat shrink over the connections to protect them. You can add a little solder to the crimps too if you want to be sure they're 100%. Looks a bit messier having individual connections but who cares!

Pickle · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 June 2015, 11:15:27 am »

Now fixed!!

Turned out to be the red supply wire to the ignition switch that was broken inside it's insulation about an inch short of it entering the underside of the switch housing. There was no evidence of a break from the outside of the wire but when I bared back the insulation the copper strands were black from the break point all the way back to the plug under the tank but were ok from the break point to the ignition switch housing so I replaced the bad section and jobs a goodun. Luckily I had that inch of good wire left to crimp on to or it could have been costly.

ps No low rev (1500-2500 rpm) hesitation and vibes any more either!

Thanks all for your help.

Bob