Footballer Ched Evans

[darrsi]

I did jury service a few years back, we where in the back room talking it over, it was 11/1 guilty, then the bloke says bollocks I gotta meet my missus in burger king in an hour 12/0 guilty lol  9 years he got.

I've actually been called to do jury service twice, about 5 years apart.
I had a similar scenario, this fella just kept agreeing with anything the person next to him said, then finally came out with the corker "Can we hurry this up, i need to do my washing." The bloke on trial was looking at 3 years inside.
3 others on another case made no notes whatsoever and could barely understand English, i have no idea how they even got that far to be a juror?


In the jury room you'll always get the big "I am" who has controlling issues who will try and dominate and even bully you into an answer which agrees with their theory, but they're normally a total bag of wind when challenged.


One thing i did learn though, is that there is no point in ever pleading guilty, because between the lawyers, who talk bullshit for a living, and incompetent jurors, there is every chance you will get let off whatever you're accused of, if i didn't see it with my own eyes i would never have believed it.


I also learned never to judge anyone until you've heard both sides of the story, because some people are just very good manipulative liars, but when you've heard both sides you realise it's much easier hearing the truth than it is hearing someone trying to keep a lie going, especially when several people are involved, unless of course you have sociopathic tendencies. 

[Gnasher]

Of course she shouldn't have got herself into that situation, of course she was taking risks. But she didn't say 'rape me'. She's not to blame and cannot share the responsibility. That's all this is about (in law).

If you run across a motorway or any busy main road and get hit is it the drivers fault for hitting you or your fault for running acorss the road putting yourself at risk?  Or if you got drunk walked along the top of a sea wall and fell in is it the walls fault or the pub who gave you the drink......no it's your fault or should they build an anti drunk idiots fence along the top of the wall just incase!  Or fence every mile of road except where the crossing are like our railways so idoits can't play chicken with trains or traffic.

This is society today or rather money grabbing solicitors!  It's always someone's else's fault, I'm crippled because I tried to run across a busy main road, or played chicken with a 300 ton train at a level crossing! 

Of course she's got some responsibility she put herself there, she went to a room with a bloke she'd met only hours before, she got drunk and by her own admission can't remember anything!   If she'd hadn't arguably it wouldn't have happened, this doesn't excuse Ched or the others behaviour but she's got to take some responsibility, I bet she wont do it again!         

[Gingernutz]

Couldn't agree more - no blame should be apportioned to the girl- regardless of guilty or innocent she was taken advantage of at least and raped at worst. Getting hammered isn't a crime punishable by predators.

As I said in my last comment there are aspects which leave doubt in my mind, the lack of alcohol in her system despite the amnesia is odd.  For her to have been unconscious as a result of alcohol at 4 am to the point of being entirely alcohol free by 12 suggests she either has a very low tolerance for alcohol or was only as drunk as she said - tipsy.  If she had 6 pints at midnight there would be alcohol in her system until 5 pm. The most she can have had was 4 pints for her to be clear by twelve.  I have never met anyone who was unconscious after 4 pints. This issue was disregarded in the trial and evidence from a specialist wasn't considered at the appeal.  The whole thing revolves around how drunk she was.  Disinhibited and 'enthusiastic' as claimed by the defense or unconscious as claimed by the prosecution. Regardless of my doubts he has had his day in court and whilst the legal battle continues he isn't going to be cleared any day soon. 

As a sex offender he should expect prejudice - not always fair but then that goes with the territory - he put himself where he is.  There is no easy solution for him  but why should we care? ?
Consider a different case - Jeremy forrest the teacher who took his 15 year old pupil to France will be nearing release date - probably March this year.  Does anyone think it should be easy for him to get a job? 

[mtread]

If you run across a motorway or any busy main road and get hit is it the drivers fault for hitting you or your fault for running acorss the road putting yourself at risk?

I think you will find that if the driver is intent on driving straight at you and deliberately running you over, it's definitely his fault ..................

[taylor]

yes darrsi I agree never judge until you hear both sides, very very true that one.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Well said vna. (although I do confess, I got a bit lost in your last paragraph?)

Cheers richfzs,

What I was trying to point out was that if I am pissed I can't legally drive and nor (in my case) I am allowed to go to work.  A big part of the reason is that my decision making process is impaired, I can no longer be relied on to make the right or sensible decisions.

Ched Evan's buddy was on the look out for a girl who would not be capable of making the correct or logical decisions. 

Jury service;

Yup done that recently.  Not it's not a great system, I mean they had me on a jury!  But it is, as they say, the least bad option, and you are being judged by your peers.  Bear in mind that a judge can sack a jury that is incapable of coming to a sensible conclusion.

On the other hand the woman has to share some responsibility for allowing herself to get into this situation,  I was raised to believe that girls who would happily allow you to screw them within an hour or so of meeting them aren't exactly full of morals!  That’s doesn't mean she's not entitled to the protection of the law, that’s said we must all take responsibility for our own actions.  I don’t think she deserved it, no one does but she defiantly put herself at risk of such behaviour so in my book she's not helped herself and should share some of the responsibility.

Yup I know, girls that get drunk and sleep about are slags.  Guys that do it are studs, ladies men, womanisers, but the women are dirty  fucking whores.  How does that work.

[lew600fazer]

Do I sense a shift in opinion here.

Trial by jury I am refering too

I have been on the receiving end of British justice system.

Nearly 40 years ago I was out for a Sunday stroll along the sea front with my then wife were we where living at the time. Our 4 year old son wanted to go to the toilet. Bad parenting on my part I let him go into the loo on his own. I thought I heard him cry out so I went in and caught this cunt trying to get him into a cubical. Long story short, I completely lost it and if it had not been for passers by I probably would have killed him. Only thing stopped me getting time was he was a known sex offender.
I was still done for GBH and was given a suspended 3 month sentence and bound over to keep the peace for 12 months.
About 8 months later I was standing at a bus stop and there was girl at the stop obviously pregnant. Two gobshites started giving her a hard time. I told them to behave and leave the lass alone. One of them fancied himself as a hard case and decided to take it to the next level. I should have walked away but being in my 20's at the time fuck it. Police got involved we all got done for disorderly behaviour. The girl gave her account of what happened and said I was looking out for her.
I was advised that I was going to be prosecuted. As I had previous I was advised by a solicitor to go via the courts and not a magistrates court. Court were advised that I had previous for GBH and was bound over to keep the peace for 12 months. At no time was my solicitor allowed to say why I was bound over or did the court advise the reasons for the order. I was found guilty of affray, fined £45.00 £200 costs and sent down for 3 months as this was my 3 months suspended sentence. Risely and Walton jails are not very nice places to spend any time in. I was out after a month. I had lost my job, could not get work, nearly lost my home. I decided to go back to sea as it was the only place I could get work and I had a family to keep and mortgage to pay. To say this put a strain on my marriage, well we split after 18 months.
Two silly decisions nearly ruined my life. I should have been a good parent and went into the loo with my son. In those days though there did not appear to be the wierdos around then as are now. How many on here though would have walked away from the bus stop and left the lass with the two gobshites.

I do not really have a lot of faith in the British justice system. I had never been in trouble with the police before or since apart from an SP30 3 years ago.

I certainly am not comparing myself to Ched Evans but he made an error of judgement has done his stretch and deserves a break.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I certainly am not comparing myself to Ched Evans but he made an error of judgement has done his stretch and deserves a break.

Lew I hear what you are saying.  You are for once correct (can't find that prod smiley) - there is no comparison between you and Mr Evans

Take it easy old son.

And it's a bike forum Lew.  Talk bikes - the ones wi two wheels and an engine - ken?

Leave idiot Mr Evans to sort out his own life.

[Gnasher]

Yup I know, girls that get drunk and sleep about are slags.  Guys that do it are studs, ladies men, womanisers, but the women are dirty  fucking whores.  How does that work.

Not suggesting that at all.  As I've clearly said Ched and his mates are without doubt in the wrong hence he's been convicted he's mates appear to have got away with it!  It's not acceptable for men to think women are just objects to use as they see fit or to behave like "dirty fucking whores" to use your words, morals apply to each gender equally. 

My point is, we all have to take responsibility for our actions and this woman put herself at risk of being abused or in this case raped by individuals like Ched and he's mates, who clearly have little regard for woman or morals.  In my book prevention is better than cure, even though Ched is guilty of the crime, if she'd made better choices she wouldn't have been in a position that lead to her being taken advantage of, so she must take some of the responsibility.  That doesn’t mean the crime is any less or Ched should be let off he and the others should have known better but clearly this women has little regard for herself and a very low moral standards.

The old adage of "if you play with matches" springs to mind!

[darrsi]

Couldn't agree more - no blame should be apportioned to the girl- regardless of guilty or innocent she was taken advantage of at least and raped at worst. Getting hammered isn't a crime punishable by predators.

As I said in my last comment there are aspects which leave doubt in my mind, the lack of alcohol in her system despite the amnesia is odd.  For her to have been unconscious as a result of alcohol at 4 am to the point of being entirely alcohol free by 12 suggests she either has a very low tolerance for alcohol or was only as drunk as she said - tipsy.  If she had 6 pints at midnight there would be alcohol in her system until 5 pm. The most she can have had was 4 pints for her to be clear by twelve.  I have never met anyone who was unconscious after 4 pints. This issue was disregarded in the trial and evidence from a specialist wasn't considered at the appeal.  The whole thing revolves around how drunk she was.  Disinhibited and 'enthusiastic' as claimed by the defense or unconscious as claimed by the prosecution. Regardless of my doubts he has had his day in court and whilst the legal battle continues he isn't going to be cleared any day soon. 

As a sex offender he should expect prejudice - not always fair but then that goes with the territory - he put himself where he is.  There is no easy solution for him  but why should we care? ?
Consider a different case - Jeremy forrest the teacher who took his 15 year old pupil to France will be nearing release date - probably March this year.  Does anyone think it should be easy for him to get a job?

You're talking about alcohol as if it's the main reason for her her condition at the time.
If someone slipped the smallest amount of the drug GHB in her drink it could knock her out for a while and be completely undetectable in her system a day later!
I used to know someone who took it regularly at home who was badly injured and he'd sleep for 4 hours but it gave him the feeling he'd just had a deep sleep for 24 hours.
Alternatively, when given to someone else unknowingly it's used as a date rape drug.
It's totally nasty stuff that consists of paint thinners, so whoever created this shit was certainly a bit twisted.


I'm not suggesting this was definitely used but it could certainly explain a few things as far as this case is concerned.


It annoys me when the media constantly blame alcohol for the majority of crime in pubs and on the streets.
What they always fail to mention is the big possibility that drugs played a huge part as well, but that's not normally admitted by the guilty party, it's always "Sorry, i was a bit drunk." and everyone just believes them.
I like a drink down my local and can blatantly spot the difference between a genuinely drunk person, and a drunk but also coked up wanker.
The devils dandruff can turn the meekest personality into what i can only describe as a horrible c*nt, who would steal from their nan, lie compulsively and generally behave like a total arsehole yet if anything kicks off, normally started randomly by them, and the police get involved, then booze takes the blame again?
Like GHB, which is a totally fucked up substance, coke is also made from substances which really shouldn't be ingested.
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to shove cement powder mixed with gasoline up your hooter was obviously being very creative that day! 

[griff86]

Totally agree with you Gnasher.

I used to work with about ten 18-21 year old girls and when they went out they would get in some right states, go home with guys they didn't know, take all sorts of drugs, they love this type of life.

2 of them got in a car with two guys they didn't know and ended up near Birmingham and had to escape into a field when they stopped at a round about.

Women in these examples have to take part of the blame as unfortunately we live in a world where someone will take advantage and commit rape, which wouldn't happen if they didn't put themselves in those situations.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I assume that both Gnasher and griff86 are teat total and have never ever been pissed.

Like GHB, which is a totally fucked up substance, coke is also made from substances which really shouldn't be ingested.

darrsi, alcohol is a poison, it's a hard drug that just so happens to be legal. 

It also happens to be the most commonly abused drug in our society.

As a friend (former addict) once said to me, alcohol is really handy for removing stains, it's handy also for removing your memory, it can also remove your friends, your wife and children, your house and employment - it can and will remove everything.

The only thing it didn't remove was his life.  He's not touched a drop now for over 30 years.

[richfzs]

The only thing it didn't remove was his life.  He's not touched a drop now for over 30 years.

Good on him, that's a hell of an achievement.


I'm reminded of an argument that I was an amused bystander to. We were in Ecuador, eating in a restaurant run Columbians, and the conversation turned to drugs. One guy on the trip, had some kind of job in the City, and we were pretty sure from things he said (even before this evening out), that he was a pretty high volume level coke user. He was saying that recreational drugs don't have to be a bad thing, and that the approach to control in the UK was all wrong. Other folk there, from the high end of the social scale (president & his wife, of one the UK larger tennis clubs), were compltely against anything, took the view that even one toke of a joint would lead you directly to injecting heroin. It got pretty heated, but none of them picked up the fact that we were all well into our bottles of wine that night, which as you say VNA, is one of the nastier drugs out there. But it's legal so is ok, go figure 

[darrsi]

I assume that both Gnasher and griff86 are teat total and have never ever been pissed.

Like GHB, which is a totally fucked up substance, coke is also made from substances which really shouldn't be ingested.

darrsi, alcohol is a poison, it's a hard drug that just so happens to be legal. 

It also happens to be the most commonly abused drug in our society.

As a friend (former addict) once said to me, alcohol is really handy for removing stains, it's handy also for removing your memory, it can also remove your friends, your wife and children, your house and employment - it can and will remove everything.

The only thing it didn't remove was his life.  He's not touched a drop now for over 30 years.

Yeah, i agree with that, although as you well know it can also be used with caution and restraint too, not everyone enjoys getting bladdered, it can be consumed on a sociable level as well.
But then too much sugar, fat, etc can also be classed as poisons too if abused, because they can kill you just the same, albeit a bit more in the long term.
It's amazing how alcohol has different reactions on individuals as well, there's a school near me and at the end of term in summer all the teachers go and have a booze up down my local.
It's worth a visit down the pub just to watch them get hammered on that one night a year.
They take embarrassment to different levels, smashing glasses, throwing up, falling off benches and generally making a complete arse of themselves.
Alcohol certainly does have a lot to answer for, although on the flip side you have certain countries and religions who don't touch a drop as it is banned but will quite happily go and empty an AK47 on people, which funnily enough when i've been on the sauce i've never felt the urge to do.
It's certainly a weird world we live in. 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Yeah, i agree with that, although as you well know it can also be used with caution and restraint too, not everyone enjoys getting bladdered, it can be consumed on a sociable level as well.

That's true of many recreational drugs.

Alcohol certainly does have a lot to answer for, although on the flip side you have certain countries and religions who don't touch a drop as it is banned but will quite happily go and empty an AK47 on people, which funnily enough when i've been on the sauce i've never felt the urge to do.

Generally most Muslims do not drink, and there is much to like about Islamic culture.

As for AK47's, well how about a bit of shock and awe, a wee bit of regime change mixed in with a little bit of 'collateral damage'.  Or Syria, where we armed Isis whilst Putin armed Assad and all the civilians are dying.    Oh ho thread tangent alert.

[lew600fazer]

As there is about a Christian culture.

Think I will withdraw from this thread now, enjoy.

[Gnasher]

I assume that both Gnasher and griff86 are teat total and have never ever been pissed.

  that's sooo funny

If only you knew   

Thing is if the roles were reversed you/I got pissed and this women had had her way with you/me we couldn't claim rape as it's not possible in law for a women to rape a man I'm told.  Now how can that be fair in this day and age I ask?

Any women who's going out with sole intention of getting absolutely bladdered and is prepared to go off with whomever she meets is putting herself at risk end of chat!  Taking responsibility for one's self means knowing when to stop or at least do it while you are accompanied so they can watch out for you and get you home, if your that weak willed you can control yourself!

Like Lews600 this is my last too   

[mtread]

Thing is if the roles were reversed you/I got pissed and this women had had her way with you/me we couldn't claim rape as it's not possible in law for a women to rape a man I'm told.  Now how can that be fair in this day and age I ask?

Because rape is a specific offense. It has to be penetration by a male (on a woman or a man). Other activities would be prosecuted as a sexual assault, including those committed by a woman.
You see, there can be no doubt that penetration by a man can only be a deliberate act. We're made that way .......

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Thing is if the roles were reversed you/I got pissed and this women had had her way with you/me we couldn't claim rape as it's not possible in law for a women to rape a man I'm told.  Now how can that be fair in this day and age I ask?

Well Gnasher just remember if you wake up one morning in a strange room wi a fella next to you and a very sare arse, well it's yer own fault - right?.  It happens, umm so I'm told.    

[darrsi]

Thing is if the roles were reversed you/I got pissed and this women had had her way with you/me we couldn't claim rape as it's not possible in law for a women to rape a man I'm told.  Now how can that be fair in this day and age I ask?

Because rape is a specific offense. It has to be penetration by a male (on a woman or a man). Other activities would be prosecuted as a sexual assault, including those committed by a woman.
You see, there can be no doubt that penetration by a man can only be a deliberate act. We're made that way .......

What if a woman gets you "ready for action" whilst you're sleeping, then takes advantage?
That's certainly possible!

[mtread]

Darrsi - in your dreams ...... 
I'm no expert, but technically I think it would be a sexual assault.

[FZSteely]

Do I sense a shift in opinion here.

Trial by jury I am refering too

I have been on the receiving end of British justice system.

Nearly 40 years ago I was out for a Sunday stroll along the sea front with my then wife were we where living at the time. Our 4 year old son wanted to go to the toilet. Bad parenting on my part I let him go into the loo on his own. I thought I heard him cry out so I went in and caught this cunt trying to get him into a cubical. Long story short, I completely lost it and if it had not been for passers by I probably would have killed him. Only thing stopped me getting time was he was a known sex offender.
I was still done for GBH and was given a suspended 3 month sentence and bound over to keep the peace for 12 months.
About 8 months later I was standing at a bus stop and there was girl at the stop obviously pregnant. Two gobshites started giving her a hard time. I told them to behave and leave the lass alone. One of them fancied himself as a hard case and decided to take it to the next level. I should have walked away but being in my 20's at the time fuck it. Police got involved we all got done for disorderly behaviour. The girl gave her account of what happened and said I was looking out for her.
I was advised that I was going to be prosecuted. As I had previous I was advised by a solicitor to go via the courts and not a magistrates court. Court were advised that I had previous for GBH and was bound over to keep the peace for 12 months. At no time was my solicitor allowed to say why I was bound over or did the court advise the reasons for the order. I was found guilty of affray, fined £45.00 £200 costs and sent down for 3 months as this was my 3 months suspended sentence. Risely and Walton jails are not very nice places to spend any time in. I was out after a month. I had lost my job, could not get work, nearly lost my home. I decided to go back to sea as it was the only place I could get work and I had a family to keep and mortgage to pay. To say this put a strain on my marriage, well we split after 18 months.
Two silly decisions nearly ruined my life. I should have been a good parent and went into the loo with my son. In those days though there did not appear to be the wierdos around then as are now. How many on here though would have walked away from the bus stop and left the lass with the two gobshites.

I do not really have a lot of faith in the British justice system. I had never been in trouble with the police before or since apart from an SP30 3 years ago.

I certainly am not comparing myself to Ched Evans but he made an error of judgement has done his stretch and deserves a break.

Lew I couldn't agree with you more, any parent who encounters a nonce, trying to do god knows what to his or her child deserves every injury coming to them or worse, and I work in a Courtroom!! You should have had people lining up to shake your hands, not cuff them!

[darrsi]

Darrsi - in your dreams ...... 
I'm no expert, but technically I think it would be a sexual assault.

Why, it's the same difference?

[VNA - BMW Wank]

What if a woman gets you "ready for action" whilst you're sleeping, then takes advantage?
That's certainly possible!

Is that one of your wet dreams?

[darrsi]

What if a woman gets you "ready for action" whilst you're sleeping, then takes advantage?
That's certainly possible!

Is that one of your wet dreams?

Obviously no woman has found you appealing enough for that to happen then?