Front Brakes feel a bit vague ..

[FuZzBoM]

Hi all,

I was never too happy with the fzs1000 brakes. as such I fitted braided HEL lines and EBC HH pads.. Much improved.
Few months ago went touring with my mate, did about 1200 miles all was well.

Since then when I ride the bike it feels like the lever needs more effort than it used to?! Still seems to stop ok and both discs get warm/hot.
Taken pads out and squeezed lever all pistons move in and out freely.
Lever feels nice and firm just don't have confidence in it.

Starting to think maybe the master cylinder needs looking at?

thoughts?

[Tmation]

EBC = Extra Bloody Crap   


Seriously though, use some 80 to 120 grit wet and dry and deglaze the discs surface and the pads. Often with light use they get a bit smooth and start to feel wooden/vague.


Wear a mask so you don't breathe the dust in.

[stevierst]

Does it take more effort to brake, or more lever movement? The 'faults' can be quite different.

More pressure needed at the lever is as previously said, possibly pad glazing. Either sanding the pads, or a spirited ride will sort that.

More lever movement is a different story. Could be air in the system, could be sticky/dry piston seals, could also be master cylinder seals (quite rare afaik).

One I found recently when fitting my braided hoses was to bleed the top banjo bolt at the master cylinder before trying to bleed the calipers, you'd be amazed how much air comes out! My brakes were quite spongy before I did this.

I've also moved away from EBC pads now, too much hype and over rating. I've switched to bendix, seem better all round.

[sadlonelygit]

i use an R6 radial m/c and carbon lorraine pads.
two finger stoppies are the order of the day.
sounds like a change of fluid is in order to start with, then new m/c seals if that doesn't cure it.

[FuZzBoM]

Brake lever feels nice and firm. very little travel.. needs more effort applied to brake.
I used to be able to brake easily with 2 fingers but often feel like I need to use all fingers to get enough pressure.

I am confident the fluid is ok as it is only 9 months old and decent quality (Motul) no air in the system due to nice firm lever with no travel under pressure.

I was wondering if a master cylinder upgrade could be the order of the day..
that or maybe a different set of pads.

I will go at them with some wet and dry 1st to see if this helps.

cheers

[stevierst]

Yeah, definately not fluid, and I doubt it's your master cylinder, or the feel would be either mushy or jerky.

It does sound like pads. Take them out and have a look to see if they've worn funny, as if they're getting caught somehow in the caliper.
Sand em down a bit and try again. If they're still the same, just buy new ones. Ain't worth skimping on brakes!

[unfazed]

Try spraying WD40 on the point where the front brake lever pushes on the master cylinder piston. The brake lever slides very slightly at this point when you apply the front brake and can have a little bit of corrosion which can make the front brake feel crap.

[FuZzBoM]

Try spraying WD40 on the point where the front brake lever pushes on the master cylinder piston. The brake lever slides very slightly at this point when you apply the front brake and can have a little bit of corrosion which can make the front brake feel crap.

Good shout unfazed.. I will give that a whirl. May go with a bit of 3 in 1 oil as it will last a bit longer.
Thinking about it when I got back from my tour I washed, dried and polished the bike.. Very possible some water sat and caused this. I did leave it for nearly a week after my trip.

[AyJay]

That's the usual pad glazing, I suspect. HH pads are very hard and are supposed to be run at very high temperatures, i.e. track use. Even the standard pads can glaze if they're only used gently.


I recommend a track day. Ho ho! But I'm not joking. On my first track day on the Fazer, I was very surprised that as the day went on, the brakes got better and better as the discs and standard pads got properly hot and deglazed themselves. Never faded once, either.


If a track day's a bit drastic, take the pads out, give them a good going over with fine sandpaper, dose both them and discs with brake cleaner then find a quiet road and do half a dozen stops from a properly high speed to zero. Really punish them. You'll probably find they then feel like they did when you first put the pads in.


But honestly, I think HHs are too hard for road use on the Fazer, and they will likely wear your discs more quickly than standard pads.


I'm a great believer in using matched mechanicals so on the Fazer it's standard pads for standard discs but I'm using HHs on my Kawasaki as that has EBC discs. It's such a heavy old beast, they get up to temperature even on the road and as a result they're working very well. No fade even on the Nurburgring. And 35k later and the discs are fine with little wear.


My Fazer's discs have just been changed after 125,000 miles (always standard pads), but on my old VFR, EBCs ate the standard discs in less than 20k. Depends on how long you expect to keep the bike, of course. The extra wear might not be an issue for you.

[FuZzBoM]

I went a step further with the lever.. Took it off, cleaned it up and covered the thing in grease then reassembled. lever action did feel a bit nicer to be fair. Not had a chance to to ride it as did it late last night and took the car to work today. Will get out on the bike this weekend no doubt.

I must admit I am thinking it is the pads that are possibly glazed.. Dare I ask the question of what pads to change them to? I went for the HH as I like a firm lever and the pads in there I think were the original ones from new (bike had only done 5000 miles when I bought it)
my ethos is generally when replace upgrade where possible.

Funny enough I am going to a track day on Monday but in my mates MX5 track slag..

[stevierst]

I've stepped away from EBC, and now use bendix MF for the road. Very good pads for road use hot or cold!