Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?

[FuZzBoM]

Hi all,

I currently have a Gen1 with 8k on the clock with following upgrades.
Ivans kit, braided lines front and rear, EBC HH Pads, pipercross air filter, blueflame end can, Hyperpro springs in forks and on shock. Just passed MOT with no advisories Bike is in mint condition.
I enjoy riding it a great deal bought it with 5k on the clock 2 years ago and done 3k since.  goes well, handles well and I enjoy every factor of it. BUT I fancy something a bit newer for some reason?!

My issue is does the extra cash I will spend warrant the change?
My other issue is that I am 6'3 and 17 stone and change so thinking will the gen2 be too firm for me? I always wanted an R1 but due to my size I have avoided one after sitting on one a few years back. Just looking for a compromise I guess.

Any thoughts welcomed

[bigbluebear]

I am the same size and weight as you and have been through the same dilemma........and decided to keep the Gen1 as it does everything I want and need it to do......the thought of selling it and then realising how good it actually was against any new purchase made the decision for me......I have mates with Fireblades, ZZR1400's and R1's and its never been an issue keeping up or overtaking them.

[noggythenog]

Ill try give my views on the gen 2 best i can but i dont have a bike history so i cant compare to the gen1.




I am a fat heavy bastard though.......just had a foot long steak and cheese subway om nom nom!!!,




Wouldnt say i do touring....no i don't...but 300 miles a day is the usual if I'm out for the day....mine will have a gel seat.






Gen2 certainly doesnt have the following of the Gen1 & that speaks volumes but im looking for handling, not neccesarily an all rounder & i couldnt give a foc about pillions.

[stevierst]

I've got a well sorted gen II which I genuinely love to bits, and I've been fortunate enough to ride a well sorted gen I similar spec to yours, albeit with an R6 shock conversion.

The bike you've got is a corker! You really won't be gaining much by changing it. The gen II is maybe slightly better handling, bit if your on the heavy side, you'll notice the lack of mid range torque on a standard bike, and the shock will need upgrading too.

You really have to tune the gen II to get the same low down thrust as a gen I, and this is gonna cost 5-6 hundred quid.

It all depends on what you want to do with the bike.
Also, the gen II isn't a good distance bike.

[Mattsplat]

The GenII is a serious disappointment if your coming from a litre sportsbike.

It goes like a wet blanket under 7krpm until you chuck a pile of money at it to make it go properly 

But once its sorted it goes like a '99 R1.

[stevierst]

The GenII is a serious disappointment if your coming from a litre sportsbike.

I think that's a bit harsh Mattsplat, it's still a deceptively quick bike for the road.

And as quick as a 99 R1???? That's a big ask of any bike. I had one for 7 years, and have never ridden anything else like it since.

[Dave48]

You've got a very low mileage Gen 1 with some seriously good mods (hence £s spent). By your own admission you are only doing 1500 miles a year.
So have you maybe got the itch to try something different?-get a good test ride to compare the torque characteristics with your current bike. Also comfort & riding position for your weight/height. If you were considering a Gen 2 are you talking stock or one with power/suspension mods already done? Theres going to be a £price involved in swapping but you wont know if its worthwhile unless you ride one.

[noggythenog]

Jus do a straight swap with kitcrazy...he wants...you want...no foccing...easy peasy.




Then yous can swap back in a couple years.




His bike comes with the wife mod though (see pic).

[Stupid Luke]

Usually the Spring brings an urge to change bikes and usually a few test rides makes you realise the bike you have is worth keeping.
 
If you are 6ft 3 I suspect you wont even need a test ride, just sit on a Gen 2 in a dealers will be enough to put you off. The footpeg  / seat distance is pure sportsbike and I (at a mere 5ft 9 found it cramp inducing after an hour).
 
I tried a Gen 2 and the z1000sx 2014 on the same day and both are, to my mind flawed bikes trying to be too many things to too many people. Neither would have been anymore comfortable for distance riding than my RC8 with some bar risers.
 
I still have a Superduke for Sunday morning blasts so I bought a Gen 1 for everything else.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I tried a Gen 2 and the z1000sx 2014 on the same day and both are, to my mind flawed bikes trying to be too many things to too many people. 
 
 I bought a Gen 1 for everything else.

Ironic isn't it. Here are two bikes you got the impression were trying to be too many things to too many people. And yet you wound up with one of the best "all rounders" there is, and yet it was pure accident that this is what the gen 1 turned out to be, as Yamaha's marketing was "son of R1" - pretty much portraying it as a hooligan streetbike, which it most definitely isn't, leastways, not in standard form.
 
I haven't ridden one, but got the impression from write-ups that the Z-SX would be too similar a machine to the gen 1 to go from one to the other. What made the gen 1 better in your eyes?
 
And from what everyone here says, I thought the FZ1 was meant to be more sports focussed than the gen 1, and yet you say it was trying to be too many things - I thought it's place was as a sports bike for people who didn't want the cramped, stretched-arms position of an R1/Blade/GSXR etc.

[Stupid Luke]

The z1000sx was a bike I really wanted to like. I waited for the 2014 model as I thought ABS and traction control may be worthwhile. I was less keen on the pointless engine modes (1 full power 140bhp ish and 2 x 100bhp old lady modes). However the seat is thin like a sports bike, the bike has a really nasty vibration most noticeable about 7000rpm and fit and finish are terrible. I doubt anyone that has ridden a Gen 1 would think they were similar.
 
The z1000sx is more akin to the Gen 2. The Yam has more power, a better seat but both are cramped in the seat peg area. That is what I mean by the Gen 2 trying to be too many things. Imagine putting handlebars on an R1 or GSXR, you get a more upright ride but you wouldnt want to tour europe on it. That is exactly what the Gen 2 felt like to me.
 
I already have a Superduke which is a pretty sporty riding position for an upright bike but I suspect the seat to pegs distance is actually greater on that than on the Gen2.
 
In 2000 I bought a new R1. I wouldnt have looked twice at the FZS1000 when it was launched the following year. But now, older and wiser, or at least creakier, the FZS is exactly what I want, nice riding position, comfortable seat, decent tank range and still goes like stink. Everything else is improveable but those fundamentals are what has made the FZS into a classic and I dont see anything else on the market to compete

[Hedgetrimmer]

Yeah, gotta say the comfort factor of the gen 1 is a big deal to me, as I'm not getting any younger/fitter either, but still like a bike that can shift when I want it to. And I agree, no one has come up with anything to rival it since as far as I can see. It's a hard, if unintentional, act to follow 

[PaulSmith]

I have to say I don't think you would get any benefit from a gen II, you already have a well sorted bike which is about as good as it is going to get in that class. If you really just want a newer version of the same, then I would look at the the z1000sx as the closest on the market to a gen1. It is not perfect and would need a few mods to bring it up to scratch, just as your existing bike needed them, but it is a decade younger and has some cool new toys to play with as well. 

I wouldn't worry about the buzz through the bars that someone mentioned, as it is a quacker feature and not a problem. A buzz through the bars as you pass through a ton (just under 7k in top) is to remind you that you have passsed through a ton. What you do about it is up to you, but it does help avoid those "How the foc did I end up doing 120mph and not notice" moments that are so common on the Fazer. 

[noggythenog]

Hmmmmmm.....interesting.




Ill keep my eye on this thread me thinks.


& ill leave my judgement of the gen2 until i ride it.


Everything ive heard thus far says that the gen 2 is the better handling.




Then a day after i do a deal on one everyone is popping out to say maybe not so.


I dunno what to believe anymore....but i wont kid myself either after a spin.




Wont be the worst test I've ever tasked myself with.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Hmmmmmm.....interesting.




Ill keep my eye on this thread me thinks.


& ill leave my judgement of the gen2 until i ride it.


Everything ive heard thus far says that the gen 2 is the better handling.




Then a day after i do a deal on one everyone is popping out to say maybe not so.


I dunno what to believe anymore....but i wont kid myself either after a spin.




Wont be the worst test I've ever tasked myself with.

I don't think anyone here has said that the gen 1 handles better than the 2. The question seems to be more one of riding position. I knocked up a knee pretty much in a smash - my right one doesn't bend so far without a deal of discomfort, otherwise, I'm sure I'd enjoy the 2 as much as the 1 - except maybe for the touring stuff. Stop worrying Noggy, you'll be fine with it 

[AyJay]

It's weird. I've been on this forum for many years now, and still the Gen 1 is talked about with reverence and love. There is nothing else like it and although we have had the Gen II, Ducati MonkeyStrangler and now the Z1000SX there's still something about the old bugger that means there's not a lot of point in buying either. They cost a lot more and are barely better at anything.


I bet Yamaha haven't a clue how they did it!


Still, we might get a new Fazer in the next year or so, but has anyone noticed what BMW are up to - an upright sports tourer with active suspension based on the 160bhp S1000….  now that sounds interesting.


In answer to the original post, though, yeah, get a Gen II. Great bike. The only trouble is…  you have to keep the Gen I!


The only thing that gives you a real reason to change is either more comfort (tourer), much better handling (sports bike) or a lot more power - a ZZR1400 with bar risers for instance …. and that was the only thing I've come across which really made me want another bike. It's just as comfortable, just as economical and somewhat more than quicker. Servicing's expensive though.


Funny thing is, when I get back on the Gen I after a few weeks on the ZZR, I just adore riding it, even with it's spindly wobbly front forks. Must get them sorted one day.


Gen 1: Greatest bike I've ever owned. By a country mile.

[FuZzBoM]

Looks as though I opened a huge debate lol.. I like the suggestion of having 2 bikes but if I did that it would have to be a Aprilia tuono as the 2nd. I just love them. couldn't use it for touring due to my height/mass limitations along with lack of garage space so have been unable to justify it.
Also I purchased an Impreza in November last year so Mrs would kill me. So alas I must be a 1 bike man.

I wanted an MT-09 but after sitting on one I decided it wasn't for me.. was hoping a Gen2 might be a good upgrade. I think for me it may be more of a sideways move? Went round Ireland 2 years ago on it and did 1400 miles in 4 days. loved it, very comfy even on the crap Irish roads. Gen2 will probably be rather harsh on the bottom when I do this years tour up Yorkshire way and the 3 national parks.
This trip is middle of May so I will have a think about it while trudge up the motorway 

By all means keep the thread going, is a very interesting debate.
If I come along to any ride outs this year please do not be offended if a tall fat hairy bloke asks to sit on your Gen2 

[stevierst]

If you have the quest for ultimate power through tuning, that's where the gen II wins hands down.

With all the mods (full exhaust system, airbox mod and filter, ivans reflash, pc5 and map, 16/47 sprockets) you will have well over 155bhp at the wheel, and almost an R1 with flat bars (albeit a bit heavier).

With all these mods, the bike is an absolute animal! The ivans flash is supposed to remove the restrictions in the first three gears, and re-tunes the secondary flies to gain the mid range torque back. Apparently it's a bit wheelie prone after all that

[pitternator]

Nobody has IMO got a viable gen1 alternative.I have been looking since 2005. All similar bikes have issues, and issues which will cost to sort ..on top of a hefty new price tag.I have been trying several just now and still am struggling to find something which is a step on.About the only bike I do like Is the vfr1200, and rather curiously its Xtourer brother. Why ? ...cos the engine is simply fantastic. Just as in its day the FZS engine stood head and shoulders above the rest. Chassis wise the fazer has always been simple, not terribly effective, but easily modded, and for not too much cash.Its competition was bandit , zrx1200 etc. Both quite crude. Many mags rated the GS of its day as competition, but in reality they were totally dissimilar.Owning both a GS and a fazer now I can tell you they are still totally dissimilar, bar they can overlap in roles.Its the awesome power of the fazer engine in an ordinary upright frame chassis which is the difference. Even the Z1000SX has less power ...MS and 1190 adventure almost there but with mega price tags , and high seats.
I tried the new tiger sport , but its more of a evo of the sprint than a fazer , and suffers cheapo suspension, poor screen and hard seat. Almost like the first FZ-1 !..add in a curious steering wander to the front wheel at low speeds...and its disappointing for what is almost 10k.

You could argue the world has moved on with adventure bikes, but they are simply popular because they offer the comfort and usability lost in the evo of sportsbikes into racebikes on the road. Definitely the ewan and charley effect boosted  the genre, rather than road bikes like the fazer taking over. My own thoughts are the FZ-1 killed the genre cos it was too sporty in bias...leaving the way open for adventure bikes to develop. Triumph copied the GS with its tiger 1050 in 2007, which helped set the trend. Oddly the S1000R is possibly the breaking point when bikes may go back to being more road biased. I welcome the change, but budget wise, its fantastic priced money ...bikes need to be sub 10k IMO to ever become as popular. Hence why I do think Triumph have missed a great opportunity with the tiger sport. It should have been the new fazer alternative.
Mind you , purists might say that the first gen1s were overpriced, had ineffective screens, hard seats and crap rear suspension....so hey ! maybe triumph have copied the gen1 ! 

[Dave48]

So Yamaha hit on a winning bike(maybe by accident?) with the Gen 1. As Pitternator says-if the gen 2 effectively killed the genre by making it more "sporty" in seating position & engine characteristics, that begs the question:what could/should they have done to the Gen 1 to retain its essential essence/character?
History has since shown they were going in the right direction in the early 2000s by providing an alternative to racebike clones-they had the FZS models as an alternative to the R6/R1. They seemed to lose direction in recent years with no new designs & high prices. Hopefully the new models arriving now will help keep biking fun& affordable as I don't know many people willing to shell out £12 to £15 grand for a bike. So what could/should they have done to the Gen 1 in 2005 to get round the euro emissions regs at the same time keeping the essential character of the machine?

[brooker81]

i have a gen 1 with nearly everything i can do on it. I rode stevierst's bike and i have to say i really like them maybe even enough to chop mine in for one i like the handling and like how much smaller and lighter they are. Also steve's growls and really is nice to ride.I'd say have a go see how it feels to you.

[Hedgetrimmer]

begs the question:what could/should they have done to the Gen 1 to retain its essential essence/character?

The FZ1 is not really so very far from what the gen 1 should have developed into. Give it a bit more leg room and a comfy seat and you'd be about there I reckon. With injection remapping and maybe some mild engine work, it could probably have the gen 1s wider spread of power without losing the kick at 7k-ish.
Injection and emissions regulations have definitely moved the goal posts since the gen 1 first hit the streets though, but I think some manufacturers are slowly clawing back what was lost.

[slimwilly]

I have a Gen2 FZ1s,  and its awesome,,great fun to ride,,,tootles around town,,winds up nicely in the countryside,,goes ballistic if you use the revs


Plenty of 1000cc torque mid range so you can ride it like a Gen 1 i guess


Bars can be changed for different reaches and rearsets could be changed and i have seen seats changed,,,,,oh i have seen all these on Gen1s of course,,,so the choice is the riders of course.

[locksmith]

I've had both and prefer the gen2, it's just more me !

[Stupid Luke]

I think if you have to own 1 bike only, and like sporty riding, the Gen 2 makes a strong case. i would rather have a Tuono V4 but you cant get those for less than 4k.
 
My preference for the Gen 1 is biased in that I intend to keep a sportier bike for fun rides and use the FZS for everything else.