Date: 24-06-19  Time: 13:13 PM

Author Topic: dig deep now children !  (Read 5217 times)

ade the blade

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dig deep now children !
« on: 02 April 2014, 10:05:46 PM »
.........so how much is Cameron and his merry bandits shipping out of the u.k heading for Chile then ? discuss :rolleyes :rolleyes bear in mind our lovely country is bursting at the seams with excess cash mountains. NOT !!

chris.biker

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #1 on: 02 April 2014, 10:13:27 PM »
There is a law that stops one charity giving to another, I guess this stops peoples donations to one cause being used for a different one. So with that in mind I pay my taxes to run the country I live in, so why do they feel they have the right to give it away to another country.


Now that said that does not mean I would not or have not given to foreign causes and disaster funds. So after a sum of money is sent by the UK. I hope those who feel it is not enough dig deep into their pockets and send the extra they feel is due.




 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #2 on: 02 April 2014, 10:17:06 PM »
Hmmm, yeah, charity begins at home. Giving away millions to others is all very commendable I'm sure. If it's your own money you're giving away and not the hard earned cash of everyone else, whom you then don't ask the opinion of.

Trouble is, we've being doing too much of it and I reckon Joe Public is getting charity fatigue now. Especially when the silly sods in Westminster then complain they can't afford to keep pouring the dosh into the NHS, or repair the roads, or shore up the education system etc etc ad infinitum in our own country.

Still, it must be well known to them that this is the way J.P. thinks now. When did they ever take any notice of what the electorate thinks, once in power anyhoo  :rolleyes

snapper

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #3 on: 03 April 2014, 08:55:22 AM »
well what every the amount of our money he'll be giving away , you can now double it ! after a second quake ! :\

midden

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #4 on: 03 April 2014, 10:24:29 AM »
May be he's using the money we didn't need to spend on our own recent and previous flood disasters because of all the aid that came generously flooding in (pun intended) from around the world  ;)



Women have chocolate men have bikes.....
including ones who like chocolate....;)

ade the blade

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #5 on: 03 April 2014, 10:55:32 AM »
May be he's using the money we didn't need to spend on our own recent and previous flood disasters because of all the aid that came generously flooding in (pun intended) from around the world  ;)


my very thoughts exactly.....those poor sods are still mopping up. India / China etc all previously poor countries now world class producers = let them bloody fork out from now on, we must be seen as right tw%ts amongst other EU countries. ` there they go look, sending out money they ain`t got and never will.....MUGS!!!! `

Buzz

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #6 on: 03 April 2014, 11:16:50 AM »
£8.6 bn in 2011


Britains aid map 009
Britains aid map 009
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...

hightower

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #7 on: 03 April 2014, 11:20:10 AM »
This video is about poverty, but more focused on Africa etc, but still thought the first bit was relevant.


Bill Nye, Science Guy, Dispels Poverty Myths



0.8% of America's budget goes to foreign aid, and I would assume it is a similar story for us. Now I'm sorry, are we so focing tight that we would rather watch people die and suffer than give a little money? Yes, we need it here more blah blah blah - that's a load of tosh. What makes us better than these other people? What makes us deserve that 50" tele when others don't even deserve fresh water, a bed to sleep on, access to basic medications? What, because we were fortunate enough to be born in a wealthy country? We could have just as easily been a Chilean, and African, and Australian (sorry, had to get that last one in to try and keep it light hearted).


But yes, if you honestly think we can't afford to help those out in dire need. I mean truly dire, not "we can't afford to go to the pub" dire. If you think we shouldn't help, then you need your head pulling out your arse.


EDIT: I've just checked. Britain spends less than 0.6% of its budget on aid. Foc me, whatever will we do with all that money that's 'leaking out of our precious haven'. Foc me indeed. Un-focing-believable
« Last Edit: 03 April 2014, 11:27:33 AM by hightower »

midden

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #8 on: 03 April 2014, 11:51:04 AM »
I actually have mixed feelings but can't be arsed to type that much :)
.6% does sound a paltry amount. But then so does 1p, until it's put with 99 others and it does seem at times as though this country is giving away the 99 to either those in other countries or those from other countries who have come to the hand for the feed  and keeping the one penny for ourselves.

£1.39 trillion in debt, How can we continue to handout even .6% of our budget.
Sometimes makes me Question why I've bothered saving instead of buying that 50'' tv and having flash holidays. After all it seems todays society runs off the credit card often with no intention of repaying the bill.

In times of recession borders and purses should be closed.
« Last Edit: 03 April 2014, 12:04:39 PM by midden »
Women have chocolate men have bikes.....
including ones who like chocolate....;)

Farjo

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #9 on: 03 April 2014, 12:09:46 PM »
Well said hightower. Many people who complain about international aid are those who also complain about migration from poor countries. Well if their countries had any money, if there were any opportunities, then they wouldn't be so desperate to get away.

We are like some rich middle ages family, living in a huge castle with all the starving hoards outside. We won't give them money for education or equipment to grow crops, and we object that they try to break into our grounds to take a share of what we have in abundance. We just spend our money on making the walls taller and stronger.

They say that travel broadens the mind, I think that some people have never been beyond Cleethorpes.

mr self destruct

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #10 on: 03 April 2014, 12:15:42 PM »
This video is about poverty, but more focused on Africa etc, but still thought the first bit was relevant.


Bill Nye, Science Guy, Dispels Poverty Myths


0.8% of America's budget goes to foreign aid, and I would assume it is a similar story for us. Now I'm sorry, are we so focing tight that we would rather watch people die and suffer than give a little money? Yes, we need it here more blah blah blah - that's a load of tosh. What makes us better than these other people? What makes us deserve that 50" tele when others don't even deserve fresh water, a bed to sleep on, access to basic medications? What, because we were fortunate enough to be born in a wealthy country? We could have just as easily been a Chilean, and African, and Australian (sorry, had to get that last one in to try and keep it light hearted).


But yes, if you honestly think we can't afford to help those out in dire need. I mean truly dire, not "we can't afford to go to the pub" dire. If you think we shouldn't help, then you need your head pulling out your arse.


EDIT: I've just checked. Britain spends less than 0.6% of its budget on aid. Foc me, whatever will we do with all that money that's 'leaking out of our precious haven'. Foc me indeed. Un-focing-believable



Couldn't have put it better myself. People tend to forget how good we have it here.
Broken, bruised, forgotten, sore,
too fucked up to care any more.

midden

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #11 on: 03 April 2014, 12:38:33 PM »
Well said hightower. Many people who complain about international aid are those who also complain about migration from poor countries. Well if their countries had any money, if there were any opportunities, then they wouldn't be so desperate to get away.

We are like some rich middle ages family, living in a huge castle with all the starving hoards outside. We won't give them money for education or equipment to grow crops, and we object that they try to break into our grounds to take a share of what we have in abundance. We just spend our money on making the walls taller and stronger.

They say that travel broadens the mind, I think that some people have never been beyond Cleethorpes.


Valid points and I do sway to your side of thinking as well as the other, always like to see both sides of a fence ;)


In these situations I often wonder how many UK resident Chileans will be donating from their earnings and savings to help Chille
or how many filipino's sent donations over to philipeans
Surprising how many UK resident Africans keep their money in their pockets when Africa is starving.


Infact here's a question I like to ask closer to home and just for fun.


So Hightower, Farjo and any others


It's xmas day the oversized turkey is about to come out of the over the spuds and sprouts are ready along with all the other belt busting delights of 1st world greed.  WAY too much for your families needs but hey it's Christmas.


You look out of your front window and on the pavement outside is a homeless person sitting there cold and hungry. 
Do you


a. Go out invite him in to bathe and sit down for a meal with you at the table
b. Take a meal out for him
As it is Christmas and that time for goodwill to all men
or
c. close the curtains and deny poverty exist in this fine country with an I'm alright Jack
Women have chocolate men have bikes.....
including ones who like chocolate....;)

andybesy

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #12 on: 03 April 2014, 12:51:57 PM »
I can't vouch for the source but here's a little video I found interesting:



Credit to rich people such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (and others) who are putting those huge piles of money to some good charitable use.

Shame on the rest of them who horde it for obscene power and wealth.

I don't pretend to have the answers to these things, but perhaps there's plenty of wealth in the world, only it's not put to very effective use?

Andy

VNA

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #13 on: 03 April 2014, 01:09:34 PM »
Quote
bear in mind our lovely country is bursting at the seams with excess cash mountains. NOT !!

But it is.  This country is stinking rich.  Sure it currently has a bit of a debt problem.  But if everybody paid their fair share that debt mountain could be sorted out in just a few years.

The big problem is that the big fat corporations, with their big fat cat bosses and directors along with their rich shareholders are not paying their taxes.  A whole host of them do not pay any corporation tax.  I gotta pay my income tax, I'd love not to, but I've no choice, I'm PAYE, I have to pay.  I wouldn't mind paying it, but why do those super rich corporations not have to pay their taxes.  Billions upon billions upon billions of pounds are not being paid.  Meanwhile these big companies pay their staff as little as possible, often so little that their employees have to claim benefits, which means that muggins here, who has paid all his taxes, every bloody penny, has to pay more tax that I should to pay the rich peoples employees. 

As for the people in Chile, give em whatever help they need, who cares what it costs.  But oh, don't forget that pledging and delivering are two separate things.  Would you trust David Cameron?

And maybe we owe em too, the UK was complicit in American foreign policy, such as the 11th of September 1973 when the democratically elected government of Chile was overthrown in a CIA back coup and right wing military junta was installed.

VNA

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #14 on: 03 April 2014, 01:13:19 PM »
Aid?  Yes Aid generally sucks.

Here's what I wrote about it in 2005 after covering the G8 for a week.  And you know what, not a thing has changed.

http://www.photoecosse.net/gallery/g8/g8dump.html


The G8, just in case you weren’t aware is when the seven richest nations on the earth, plus Russia, meet to decide the future of the global economy, along with many other issues.

The big issue on the agenda this year was to be Africa. Yes, the richest nations in the world were to meet and solve the problems of the poorest nations, so we were told. Issues on the table concerning the African continent also of course have much wider implications. The main economic issues are debt, aid and trade. One of the other big issues, and one which affects the whole world, was global warming.
So after a few rounds of golf, the odd wee bicycle ride, (who let Bush loose on a bicycle?) and a few million spent on accommodation and security, what did they achieve? They must have come up with something, surely. Let’s see.
Africa, the debt, aid and trade.

On the debt issue, they agreed to cancel the debt of 18 of the world’s poorest countries. Now while that sounds great, the reality is that the debt was not being serviced, for the simple reason that these countries had no money with which to service it. So while this move looks good, and I suppose is a step in the right direction, in reality it doesn’t cost the G8 a penny. Now will these countries get the aid and the trade deals that they need to develop and stay free of such debt in the future? We’ll come to that in a minute.

The G8 announced that it would double aid to Africa. Aid to Africa will increase by $25 billion over the next few years, more than doubling the amount of aid given to Africa in 2004. That sounds great. But hold on a minute. The major charities are telling us that this is not new money - "the G8 have recycled old announcements to reach the $25 billion" and "the deal on debt falls far short of what is needed to reduce poverty." (source Christian Aid web site).

Nor was there any commitment to stop tying aid to economic and other reforms. In other words, if the rich western countries can’t find a way to profit quickly from that aid, well they won’t give any aid.

Now, of course, the key to the future development of African countries, and many others round the world, is trade. They need fair trade, not free trade. They need an end to the free trade system, which allows the rich western countries to dump their surplus subsidised products on the poorest countries in the world, which along with the privatisation programmes attached to the aid deals, allows the west to profit from aid. This destroys any hope of a sustainable economy in most African nations.

So what did the G8 come up with? Well they admitted that there is a problem with ‘free trade‘, but we all knew that. They stated that poor countries should be able to choose their own economic policy. This suggests an end to the policy conditions attached to aid and debt cancellation. However no specific action plan was included. The G8 also failed to set a date for the end of export subsidies. In other words no action will be taken.

Global warming. Then there is the small matter of Global warming - an issue that could affect every single person in the world. So what did our world leaders come up with? Well, finally they all agreed, including Mr Bush that Global warming was happening and that mankind was contributing to it. Unfortunately, that’s all that they managed to agree on, other than to talk about it again in November.
So what exactly did the 2005 G8 achieve?

Bush, Blair, Chirac, Martin, Schröder, Berlusconi, Koizumi and Putin, they played golf, they enjoyed the facilities of one of Scotlands finest hotels. They wined and dined on the finest produce Scotland and the world has to offer, all free, or to be more precise at the expense, this year, of the British tax payer.

And what did they do. What did they do to stop the millions of people who die of starvation, needlessly, every year, as result of their own corrupt policies? What did they do to change the injustices that hold billions of people unnecessarily in appalling poverty? What did our leaders, the would be unelected leaders of the so called ‘free world’ do to tackle the growing problem of Global warming?
Nothing. They choose to do nothing. Not a damn thing. Nothing at all.





hightower

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #15 on: 03 April 2014, 01:20:28 PM »
So Hightower, Farjo and any others


It's xmas day the oversized turkey is about to come out of the over the spuds and sprouts are ready along with all the other belt busting delights of 1st world greed.  WAY too much for your families needs but hey it's Christmas.


You look out of your front window and on the pavement outside is a homeless person sitting there cold and hungry. 
Do you


a. Go out invite him in to bathe and sit down for a meal with you at the table
b. Take a meal out for him
As it is Christmas and that time for goodwill to all men
or
c. close the curtains and deny poverty exist in this fine country with an I'm alright Jack


I'm a Christian, so I think you could guess my answer (and no, it's not counting the gold that we've just collected from the service!). I honestly would invite them in. We do a lot of work for the Church, and try to give as much as we can, especially in terms of time.


As for your point about "I wonder how many Chileans living in the UK would donate back" - so what if they do, so what if they don't?! There's too much of that attitude of "I'll help if he does" in this world - if we all thought like that we'd all be sat on our hands waiting for others to act (sound familiar?).


How many times have you seen (even youtube videos) people in trouble, in a city with many people around. How many times do people just watch and wait? It takes one brave person to do something and then suddenly he/she has a dozen helpers - where were those helpers before this brave guy stepped in? Watching, waiting.


I'm not preaching, really. But I believe God left us the ability to make Heaven on this earth. As long as we're looking down our noses at each other coming out with "why should I help when they can't help themselves" then we'll never experience love as it's meant to in this life.


I can't think of anything worse than being stuck in poverty, with no hope, no light at the end of the tunnel, no way out. And there's all these people with money who just stand and judge. Behind each and everyone is a heart, a person, a soul. And we just toss them to one side with things like "why should we help, we didn't have an earthquake". I sincerely pray that none of you ever have to experience poverty like some of these countries.

Farjo

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #16 on: 03 April 2014, 02:07:14 PM »
In these situations I often wonder how many UK resident Chileans will be donating from their earnings and savings to help Chille
or how many filipino's sent donations over to philipeans
Surprising how many UK resident Africans keep their money in their pockets when Africa is starving.
There are selfish people in every country!


So Hightower, Farjo and any others

It's xmas day the oversized turkey is about to come out of the over the spuds and sprouts are ready along with all the other belt busting delights of 1st world greed.  WAY too much for your families needs but hey it's Christmas.

You look out of your front window and on the pavement outside is a homeless person sitting there cold and hungry. 
Do you

a. Go out invite him in to bathe and sit down for a meal with you at the table
b. Take a meal out for him
As it is Christmas and that time for goodwill to all men
or
c. close the curtains and deny poverty exist in this fine country with an I'm alright Jack
Of course the answer is C. Naturally if someone was actually outside my window I would ask them in or at least take them some food, but every day of the year people starve and yet I spend money on luxuries. I never said I was perfect.

VNA

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #17 on: 03 April 2014, 03:31:07 PM »
Quote
I'm a Christian

Oh Christ!

Quote
I'm not preaching, really.

I rather think you are.

But seriously, you, I or anybody else does not need to justify ourselves to idiotic ignorant short sighted foccers like midden or answer their dumb straw man questions.


hightower

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #18 on: 03 April 2014, 03:39:09 PM »

Quote
I'm not preaching, really.

I rather think you are.


I mentioned I was a Christian as it was relevant to the question at hand. Not preaching, merely using my faith to help point out something.


Quote
idiotic ignorant short sighted foccers like midden or answer their dumb straw man questions.


I think that's a bit below the belt, and uncalled for. People are entitled to their opinions: just because they have one and I disagree with it doesn't mean we should go round calling them names. To call someone dumb over this is quite frankly offensive - and will never win someone around. Educate, don't hate.

richfzs

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #19 on: 03 April 2014, 03:43:02 PM »
Not been around here long, have you, hightower? :rollin

VNA stands for Very Nasty Andy...

Now all we need is for iano to turn up :lol

VNA

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #20 on: 03 April 2014, 04:32:50 PM »
Quote
Now all we need is for iano to turn up :lol


Oh for God's sake.

Quote
I mentioned I was a Christian as it was relevant to the question at hand.


That's my point it's not relevant.  Not in the slightest.

Quote
To call someone dumb


I didn't call him dumb, I suggested he was an " idiotic ignorant short sighted foccer" :)    It was his straw man question I called dumb.

Quote
VNA stands for Very Nasty Andy...



Well remembered richfzs :lol

midden

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #21 on: 03 April 2014, 05:51:45 PM »
So Hightower, Farjo and any others


It's xmas day the oversized turkey is about to come out of the over the spuds and sprouts are ready along with all the other belt busting delights of 1st world greed.  WAY too much for your families needs but hey it's Christmas.


You look out of your front window and on the pavement outside is a homeless person sitting there cold and hungry. 
Do you


a. Go out invite him in to bathe and sit down for a meal with you at the table
b. Take a meal out for him
As it is Christmas and that time for goodwill to all men
or
c. close the curtains and deny poverty exist in this fine country with an I'm alright Jack


I'm a Christian, so I think you could guess my answer (and no, it's not counting the gold that we've just collected from the service!). I honestly would invite them in. We do a lot of work for the Church, and try to give as much as we can, especially in terms of time.


As for your point about "I wonder how many Chileans living in the UK would donate back" - so what if they do, so what if they don't?! There's too much of that attitude of "I'll help if he does" in this world - if we all thought like that we'd all be sat on our hands waiting for others to act (sound familiar?).


How many times have you seen (even youtube videos) people in trouble, in a city with many people around. How many times do people just watch and wait? It takes one brave person to do something and then suddenly he/she has a dozen helpers - where were those helpers before this brave guy stepped in? Watching, waiting.


I'm not preaching, really. But I believe God left us the ability to make Heaven on this earth. As long as we're looking down our noses at each other coming out with "why should I help when they can't help themselves" then we'll never experience love as it's meant to in this life.


I can't think of anything worse than being stuck in poverty, with no hope, no light at the end of the tunnel, no way out. And there's all these people with money who just stand and judge. Behind each and everyone is a heart, a person, a soul. And we just toss them to one side with things like "why should we help, we didn't have an earthquake". I sincerely pray that none of you ever have to experience poverty like some of these countries.
Not sure I was giving the attitude of I'll help if he does or why help when they can't help themselves.  But it seems to me that this country has been held under a dark cloud of guilt from centuries ago for the slave trade and empire building. Even by those who have benefited from those actions
I actually don't mind the aide being given and I do also think that's why in part we are greater than others. I also don't slag of economic migrants for coming over. After all wouldn't we all do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

Women have chocolate men have bikes.....
including ones who like chocolate....;)

midden

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #22 on: 03 April 2014, 05:55:33 PM »
Quote
I'm a Christian

Oh Christ!

Quote
I'm not preaching, really.

I rather think you are.

But seriously, you, I or anybody else does not need to justify ourselves to idiotic ignorant short sighted foccers like midden or answer their dumb straw man questions.


As it goes I'm glad you have me all wrong ;)


and it isn't a dumb question, it's one I've often asked myself. 

Women have chocolate men have bikes.....
including ones who like chocolate....;)

hightower

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #23 on: 03 April 2014, 08:18:11 PM »
I wasn't suggesting you were midden, sorry if it sounded like that. When discussing such a matter you can only really talk in general blanketing terms (ie the country as a whole). I wasn't trying to point fingers.


And nope, I didn't know VNA meant that. One thing I do know though is I CBA with those sorts of 'very nasty' posts.

slimwilly

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Re: dig deep now children !
« Reply #24 on: 03 April 2014, 08:29:32 PM »
Foc em, yes Foc em,,all of them ,, and you lot too,,Foc U
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