Author Topic: Snapped exhaust stud (Read 9350 times)

hightower · « **on:** 27 March 2014, 07:26:04 pm »

So undone all nuts, no problem, this is easy. Get to last nut.... Snap. I barely even lent on it.

It's not the closest but the next one. It's snapped flush with nut so still quite a lot protruding from head. I'm adament this is not getting drilled so help me! I've already started spraying with penetrating oil. I was thinking two nuts locked against each other and gently does it? then if that doesn't work, mole grips?

I'll heat the head a bit too, but any other suggestions?

Buzz · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 March 2014, 08:01:06 pm »

Sorry to hear that, but this post might come to your aid...Rivet nuts!

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,9311.msg101822.html#msg101822

I saved the pain of a snapped nut and dremelled all mine off last weekend...what a PITA that was but at least I've now got 8 copper slipped brass nuts on there ready for my Venom in the post

Good luck with the repair..I'm sure a rivet nut will sort it and it'll only cost a couple of quid, 1 snapped out of 8 is good going though judging by some of the horror stories I've seen on here!

hightower · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 March 2014, 08:06:53 pm »

Rivet nut. Need to research that.

hightower · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 March 2014, 08:10:14 pm »

Not sure that rivet nut is the solution. I plan on getting the old stud out in tact, thus still having decent thread to install a new replacement nut. Just looking for suggestions of how to get the stud out.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 March 2014, 09:25:56 pm »

Quote from: hightower on 27 March 2014, 08:10:14 pm

Not sure that rivet nut is the solution. I plan on getting the old stud out in tact, thus still having decent thread to install a new replacement nut. Just looking for suggestions of how to get the stud out.

I bet you planned on getting the nut off without snapping the stud too! Deadeye had some success with an impact and a stud extractor. That's probably the way to go.

hightower · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 March 2014, 09:27:55 pm »

Stud extractor, that sounds fit for purpose....

His Dudeness · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 March 2014, 09:38:48 pm »

There's his post

Quote from: Dead Eye on 04 February 2013, 09:14:18 pm

I bought a 1/2" drive impact driver from Halfords (I couldn't wait :P) and an impact stud remover set from Amazon here; http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001DYRDU2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Most of the larger 1/2" drive extractors range from 6mm up and since the studs are 6mm I wasn't confident that it could get a significant grip. This is why I bought the set which included the 2mm-8mm extractor which worked pretty well. On one of them I almost couldn't get the extractor to let go of the stud once I'd removed it

After several wacks from a hammer, they all (bar one) began to shift and allowed me to use a socket wrench to remove them without sheering them off any further.

For those who may be interested, the machine shop (Star Engineers in Broomfield) were very helpful and it ended up costing me £40. Since this was for two studs (drilled out, re-tapped and heli-coiled) I didn't think the price was too bad

Buzz · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 March 2014, 10:00:28 pm »

...I'd still try the rivet nut and keep the broken stud in there

Rikki · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 March 2014, 10:55:12 pm »

Exactly the same happened to me. Cylinder 3, upper stud went with no pressure whatsoever. Rather than buying a tool I took it into a workshop to get it extracted, but unfortunately it had turned to cheese and had to be drilled anyway. Unless you can borrow an extractor I would consider saving your money for the drill & re-tap as it's likely you will end up having to do this anyway. Fortunately it can be done with the engine in situ (if it's the same stud).

darrsi · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 March 2014, 05:52:33 am »

Somebody looking for a stud extractor? Mind you don't lose any nuts though.....

apage16 · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 March 2014, 06:22:40 am »

I snapped 6 out of 8 so had to employ various extraction methods.

The most successful was shed loads of penetrating oil, a bit of heat (but let it cool a bit, those studs will be like toffee otherwise! It's the variance in expansion between the stud and the block that cracks the rust. Not that the stud is hot) and Molegrips.

Clamp the grips as HARD as humanly possible, and then start with the tiniest of back and forth movement. It felt ridiculous because i was moving fractions of a millimetre to begin with. but just keep going and don't get impatient.

I freed up 3 like this.

1 I filed to a flat and got a crescent spanner on it.

2 had to drill and re-tap.

And replace them with stainless studding for the love of god!!

hightower · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 March 2014, 06:48:41 am »

Buzz, I'm missing something. I thought you'd use them with a drilled hole. Can you explain? How it would work?

Buzz · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 March 2014, 07:32:01 am »

I think you are. If you say you've snapped the bolt just under the nut then the shaft is just too short to get another nut on. The rivet nut has a normal M6 thread running all the way through it which extends below the nut by almost a cm, this should give you enough extra reach to grab onto the existing broken shaft.

As you've got to push this extended part of the rivet nut though the hole in the header clamps it might be a bit tight, the other post said a slightly larger hole (9mm) was needed to give the rivet nut space to rotate.

Of course all of this depends on how much of the snapped shaft you've still got left sticking out the head, the more the better. You say it snapped right below the nut so this solution should be perfect, no extractor, no drilling out and retapping etc.

Here's a little drawing:-

Details

Capture

hightower · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 March 2014, 10:42:20 am »

Ok, so it's all a question on whether the flange has a hole big enough (don't fancy drilling new pipes!) And this rivet nut will provide the strength needed?

apage16 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 March 2014, 10:59:19 am »

Wish I'd had some of those rivet nuts!

I'd have a lot less scarring on my knuckles!!!

Buzz · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 March 2014, 11:04:26 am »

Quote from: hightower on 28 March 2014, 10:42:20 am

Ok, so it's all a question on whether the flange has a hole big enough (don't fancy drilling new pipes!) And this rivet nut will provide the strength needed?

Yep, but surely drilling an extra 1/2 mm out of one hole on the flange is better than a snapped stud, engine out and a £400 bill? I know which I'd go for.

Regarding strength, you'd have to ask "mobile mouse" but seeing as you're only using 10Nm to hold them on it's not exactly doing the same work as the front sprocket nut.

Best of luck anyways!

Dead Eye · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 March 2014, 11:13:40 am »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 27 March 2014, 09:38:48 pm

There's his post

Quote from: Dead Eye on 04 February 2013, 09:14:18 pm
I bought a 1/2" drive impact driver from Halfords (I couldn't wait :P) and an impact stud remover set from Amazon here; http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001DYRDU2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Most of the larger 1/2" drive extractors range from 6mm up and since the studs are 6mm I wasn't confident that it could get a significant grip. This is why I bought the set which included the 2mm-8mm extractor which worked pretty well. On one of them I almost couldn't get the extractor to let go of the stud once I'd removed it

After several wacks from a hammer, they all (bar one) began to shift and allowed me to use a socket wrench to remove them without sheering them off any further.

For those who may be interested, the machine shop (Star Engineers in Broomfield) were very helpful and it ended up costing me £40. Since this was for two studs (drilled out, re-tapped and heli-coiled) I didn't think the price was too bad

As much as this worked really well for me (they were all very very badly corroded) I did remove the engine to get decent access. I reckon I could have gotten all 8 out without too much issue if I'd been a little more patient with them.

Taking the engine out is a huge deal but it does take a while - took me a day to remove and a day to replace and this was in winter (early Feb 2013) where the days were short and damn cold. I also didn't have a garage or anything so this was done outside but it worked and saved me a hell of a lot of money. If you only have one to remove, then leaving the engine in situ to attempt a repair is a better idea but access is a bit harder and you need to be more careful with the balance of the bike and how much force you are putting in which direction... I could whack the hell out of my impact driver as the engine was out and resting on gravel :P

hightower · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 March 2014, 11:17:16 am »

Just trying to find some of those rivet nuts. the only ones I can find are ones that collapse when used to become a sort of plaster board wall plug.

fazersharp · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 March 2014, 11:48:59 am »

So if they are only done up to 10nm and only sort of hold the exhaust in place, could you not get away with one and some sort of sealing compound.

By the way those rivet nuts and a slightly bigger hole look like the way to go.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought "ok 2-3 months time I am changing headers and then started with the penetrating oil

Buzz · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 March 2014, 12:17:41 pm »

The M6XL from here look good, £2.16 for 10. Not Stainless steel but copper slip them up and you'll be fine I'm sure.

hightower · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 March 2014, 01:29:27 pm »

Quote from: Buzz on 28 March 2014, 12:17:41 pm

The M6XL from here look good, £2.16 for 10. Not Stainless steel but copper slip them up and you'll be fine I'm sure.

I thought those were the style that folded to do this (on right):

What sort of tool do you use to install them?

Buzz · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 March 2014, 02:35:38 pm »

Yes they are, but you're not using them to rivet, you're taking advantage of their design to do the job at hand. A summary of the other thread: -

- I bought some M6 stainless steel rivet nuts and an M6 Stainless steel nut.
- I drilled out the nut so there would be a good friction fit.
- I then hammered the rivet nut into the drilled out nut (don't just hammer the rivet nut as it will fold up, insert a M6 bolt and then hammer the bolt head, the thread on the bolt will drive the rivet nut into the nut)

It's a very simple fix. I did have to run a 9mm drill through the clamps as the rivet nut was just a little tight and would not turn in the clamp.

adeejaysdelight · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 March 2014, 03:24:03 pm »

I had the exact same issue mate. Halfords sell an extraction set for £17. Its good and does the job. No drilling and dicking about. If it has a bit poking out, that is a gift. Use it.

limax2 · « **Reply #23 on:** 28 March 2014, 07:39:08 pm »

If all else fails and it's on number 2 or number 3 cylinder, note there are two blank bosses at 90 degrees to the ones with the studs in. Some one on here suggested drilling and tapping these and just swiveling the flange round to suite. Not sure if anyone has done it but could be handy if the original location gets messed up in a drilling out operation.
Good luck and hope you don't need this tip. $:\$ .

thunderpantz · « **Reply #24 on:** 31 March 2014, 08:48:14 pm »

Quote from: Buzz on 28 March 2014, 02:35:38 pm

Yes they are, but you're not using them to rivet, you're taking advantage of their design to do the job at hand. A summary of the other thread: -

- I bought some M6 stainless steel rivet nuts and an M6 Stainless steel nut.
- I drilled out the nut so there would be a good friction fit.
- I then hammered the rivet nut into the drilled out nut (don't just hammer the rivet nut as it will fold up, insert a M6 bolt and then hammer the bolt head, the thread on the bolt will drive the rivet nut into the nut)

It's a very simple fix. I did have to run a 9mm drill through the clamps as the rivet nut was just a little tight and would not turn in the clamp.

Cheers for that info mate, will be invaluable when I come to do mine. That said, Instead of using a rivet nut, could you not use something simpler like a stainless joint connector?