Another Helmet thread

[fazersharp]

So im in an ex hein gercik now aj buying some ear plugs, and he sees my old blue BS sticker and starts on about it is now past its use by date or words to that effect - polystyrene going brittle and stuff. It is now 12 years old and done only 10k miles its a HJC ZF-7. I kinda knew they should be replaced regardless but I like it and its still a good fit ive never dropped it and always looked after it. I do need a new dark visor and a new clear one so rather than spending 25 on those two I could put the dosh to a new one but do I really need to solely based on age, it is a fibreglass one.    I tried on many and the best fit was another HJC - an IS -17 seems that the HJCs crash test dummy has the same head shape as me. What is the Focer wisdom on this please.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Ok, this is just my view, my opinion, alright?!! 

I've been using the IS-17 for a few months now. Somewhere there is a write-up I did on it. I liked it at first. I got a good fit, it didn't seem too noisy (though not the best lid I've had in that regard), my first with a drop down sun visor - very handy it has been too. In the summer I thought the vents worked really well, allowing in plenty of cool air. It's double D ring, which is my preference. It comes with a pinlock insert (although others have not got one in the box - it should have one).
So I had been quite happy with it.

BUT: now I don't like it anymore and am thinking about replacing it with the HJC RPHA10 plus. Why have I gone off it? Cos no matter what I do, it directs a stream of air straight into my eyes. All the time. I've blocked up the vents with gaffer tape. I've placed a little gasket behind the visor catch (we were sent a video by one guy who swore this was where the air was coming from). With vents closed, visor adjusted and locked down, still this bloody annoying jet of air. And it's not minor. So the IS-17 will be going soon, maybe next week. The RPHA10 fits me even better, though a bit dearer. It doesn't have a drop down sun visor (the new ST version does, but the mechanism feels a bit cheap and the padding only seems to give me contact in a few places instead of being snug all round - it's also the same weight as the IS whereas the plus is a bit lighter), so I'll be investing in a dark visor, and will also find out if I can wear wire-rimmed shades with it.

So there you have it. Take it or leave it.

HTH 

[fazersharp]

Nick Crisp that is a fantastic real- owner feed back I will google that jet of air. But I am a glasses wearer so i may be ok with it.
I like the sound of the vents working as I have alweays thought any mention of "cooling vents" was markiting speal. All of my riding is in dry weather and mostly nice and warm so good vents would be nice. 
The sun visor I had a look through it and it seems to be a legal tint which is not worh having and so I would be replacing it straight away with a darker one.
Weight is not an issue for me as my one now is heavy and ime used to it
 But what of the age question with my current helmet.

[mickvp]

I change my helmets every 4 or 5 years as a matter of course anyway. 5 years seems to be a consensus from most biking forums.

heres what snell have to say on the matter:

The five-year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five-year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy.

http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aWhyReplace

[fazersharp]

Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance

You see I dont have a problem with any of that in that its not had much wear and tear - nothing touches it other that water, I dont wear cosmetics or have greasy hair and I dont "do" body fluids.
 So other than the advances in tec and what and how much has the tec got better and how much tec is just marketing.
Its not the money issue so much as that I like my helmet as its got a lot of chrome that I have not seen anywhere else. 
 

[mickvp]

its only a recommendation anyway mate, they are not saying if you dont change it in 5 years, it will be like wearing a watermelon on your head in a crash.

If your happy with that reasoning, then all is well. I use my helmet a fair bit and am not prepared to take the risk.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I'm not sure that they do a full dark visor (and defo not a darker sun visor) for the IS fazersharp. I will check this for you on Monday. Yes, the sun visor is not as dark as a full tint, but better than nowt. The drop down on the new ST seems even less tinted. I used to use full dark tint visors on previous helmets (Shoei, Arai, Lazer) - looks like I'm going back to that.

It has just occurred to me that I have never used the IS without the breath guard - could be aggravating the air-jet problem. I'll try it without tomorrow and get back to you on this.

Good one Mick. Also, where the helmet sits on top of the crown of your head, the EPS can eventually start to compress a little so I am told, which may weaken the protection further eventually. But there is, as far as I know, no absolute definitive guide to these things (note that Mick's quote says "five-year replacement is a judgement call stemming from prudent safety philosophy" Arai were recommending 5-year replacement 15 or 20 years ago. Others recommended 3 year replacement. As long as it doesn't get silly abuse, I reckon you're alright at about 5 years with any helmet, and it will probably still give good protection beyond that.

Had a bit of fun with an old Box helmet on Friday. We removed the EPS, which was just a tight fit inside the outer shell (probably fibreglass) and not sticky-taped in as are some. "Will it break if you smash it on the floor?" was the question. First I did it on the chinbar, hard as I could. (Foc me, but it bounced well!  ). Just marked paint was the result. So tried it on the very top of the crown. Same thing - bounced up about 6 feet, and only a mark in the paint. And that's just a cheapo Box lid. Course, if the EPS had been in it, that may well have cracked. See what we do in the interests of scientific crash testing for you guys? 

[mickvp]

stick the EPS and a watermelon in it and try it again

[fazersharp]

Just marked paint was the result. So tried it on the very top of the crown. Same thing - bounced up about 6 feet, and only a mark in the paint. And that's just a cheapo Box lid.

But is it not so much that the protection question is not about the outer shell but more about the shock absorbs of the whole unit for which the inner will deteriorate over he outer layer
 
Whats EPS
And a reminder that me hat is 12 years old-- not much milage done but 12 years old
 
And I have been a-thinking- that I could cover the sun shield with some tint sticky back plastic like what idiots stick on their car windows to get it to a proper tint

[Hedgetrimmer]

 So other than the advances in tec and what and how much has the tec got better and how much tec is just marketing.
 

Remember Griffon Clubmans? Centurion polycarbonate lids? Helmets have definitely improved over the years! Not that anyone cared much about how good they were back then. You either wore one cos you thought it looked cool - and in retrospect, none of em did! - or after the helmet law came in, cos you had to.

The outer shells these days are made of composites that may include Kevlar, carbon etc. These materials are lighter and stronger than older helmets used. Most modern helmets have detachable, washable liners now, with plusher covering materials. Don't know about anything else, but the manufacturers would probably give a whole list if you asked - they'd have to, to justify today's prices!

As long as it is EC22 marked, it'll probably give a reasonable level of protection I would have thought.

[mickvp]

EPS is Expanded PolyStyrene Fazersharp

[fazersharp]

As long as it is EC22 marked, it'll probably give a reasonable level of protection I would have thought.

  Yehhhh that EC22 do dah - mine is BS but the EC22 just replaced it I dont know if it is any better, more likley its just a E-U harmoney thing   

EPS is Expanded PolyStyrene Fazersharp

  Doh - of course

[midden]

My £55 duchinni has that annoying stream of air flow up and over one eye.  extremely annoying. I would think twice about air vents when I get a new lid

[Hedgetrimmer]

My £55 duchinni has that annoying stream of air flow up and over one eye.  extremely annoying. I would think twice about air vents when I get a new lid

I think you'd be lucky to find any helmet totally without air vents these days? TBF, this is the only helmet I've had this particular problem with, but I know it's not just me with the IS-17.

[JoeRock]

My £55 duchinni has that annoying stream of air flow up and over one eye.  extremely annoying. I would think twice about air vents when I get a new lid

Not being funny, but if you spend £55 on a lid, it's going to have some cost cutting measures as compared to a more expensive lid?

[midden]

My £55 duchinni has that annoying stream of air flow up and over one eye.  extremely annoying. I would think twice about air vents when I get a new lid

Not being funny, but if you spend £55 on a lid, it's going to have some cost cutting measures as compared to a more expensive lid?

Oh absolutely agree,
 I mentioned it in relation to Nicks comment about his doing the same  (Just didn't insert quote). 


Now I'm wondering how much Nicks lid cost?

[fazersharp]

The IS -17 is £139 in J&S -- ex hein gerick plain colour
 
My HJc never has had a air tight visor come to think of it. So far I dont think Nick Crisp 's comments have put me off. All that if left is dO I actually need to replace my current one on age alone.
 
Hmmm looking at the other helmet thread about SHARP testing the IS -17 has top marks http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/hjc-17

[midden]

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/Motorcycle-Helmet-Maintenance-and-Replacement-5122.aspx

[fazersharp]

Thanks midden for that but im reading it and thinking none of that applies to me as its only ever had water to clean it and is still a good fit and not had much use.
What I am seeing here is kind of (not you lot ) wishy washy guidelines mainly from manufacturers, who want me to buy a new lid every 3 years. I suppoes that they do not want to get into issues that giving a set time would bring if one failed under that time.
I don't do fashion and I wonder how many people are swayed to by a new lid based on the latest design and using the 3-5 year manufactures guidelines as an excuse to get a new lid rather than any age/ safety related issue

nick crisp could you point me in the direction of your IS-17 review please

[Hedgetrimmer]

Here it is fazersharp (sorry, don't know how to take just the specific quotes out of the thread to post in another section  )

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,8457.msg87555.html#msg87555

Funny thing today, I forgot to try removing the breath guard, and had no problems with that air stream thing. Most peculiar. Other days it has been almost unbearable.

Hope it's of some use.

[fazersharp]

Thanks for that.
I think this will be the helmet I will get IF i am convinced that I need a new one.
I wanted it to be a "no brainer" - no pun intended. With a definate "oh my god 12 year old lid are you mad" kind of thing.
Recap
Cost me £120 12 years ago
Done 10k miles in it
Still fits good even when compared with trying on a new one
Only ever used water to clean
Never dropped
And I lke it
I need to spend £25 on new visors for it
What do I do

[Hedgetrimmer]

Well, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the 3/5 year "rule" myself, if I knew that the helmet has been well looked after, not dropped or generally abused, and still fits nice and snug. But, 12 years? Hmmm, not sure, never managed to keep a helmet that long without crashing/dropping/abusing 

No one selling helmets is ever gonna tell you that a 12 year old helmet is ok. I think it just has to be your call 

[fazersharp]

Thanks for the replies so far but ive just noticed that I only have 3 opinions so I am bumping to see if I can get some more wisdom and thoughts perhaps

[esetest]

I read in a bike magazine ride or bike that it was 10years or 30k miles , I bought my Shoei raid 11 for £250 in 2007 and have done 22k  miles so far, I'm planning to replace it in 2016 , I also bought a box flip front with a sun visor for £100 but only use it for shorter trips as it gets uncomfortable.

[Hedgetrimmer]

I read in a bike magazine ride or bike that it was 10years or 30k miles , I bought my Shoei raid 11 for £250 in 2007 and have done 22k  miles so far, I'm planning to replace it in 2016 , I also bought a box flip front with a sun visor for £100 but only use it for shorter trips as it gets uncomfortable.

Hey esetest, I hope you can take that Box off without opening the chin bar, cos sooner or later you're gonna have to!